Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

“The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

grumpygamer.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 280 posts

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#151

Post by pessimizer »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #66

It's not just gamers. The Internet has spawned a culture of "no consequences for letting your Id come out to play." If I walk up to Big Bad John, and call him a rude name, he will knock my teeth out. That's called "immediate negative feedback." Consequence immediately follows action. On the Internet (although this kind of thing predates the Internet. The Internet just commoditized it), this negative feedback loop is…

> If I walk up to Big Bad John, and call him a rude name, he will knock my teeth out.

Big Bad John is a strawman, because if Big Bad John was abusing his children or beating his wife, I wouldn't confront him either. I'd call the police. It doesn't reflect at all the legitimacy or illegitimacy of the criticism.

Also, we should probably get over that pretense that anonymity ends brutal criticism. Plenty of people are happy to sign pretty brutal criticism, or even to make a brand out of it.

The thing that it's easy to do is to attack "haters" or "cynics" because they don't really exist. They're what happens when people define other people's motivations by the effect on them personally. Somebody hates me? They're a "hater." Somebody says that something I think will work will definitely not work? They're a "cynic" that doesn't believe anything can improve and hate people who have retained the ability to dream.

The same people leaving comments on this game encouraging the designers to kill themselves will agree completely with this reasoning, because it has very little content.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#152

Post by toast0 »

djur wrote: post #90
stuckinhell wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.gamedesigngazette.com/2018/01/the-legend-of-zelda... year platform title sales 2002 GC Wind Waker 4,430,000 2013 Wii U The Wind Waker HD 2,310,000 2006 Wii/GC Twilight Princess 8,850,000 2016 Wii U Twilight Princess HD 1,130,000 Twilight princess is still more popular if you look at sales.

Your list shows Wind Waker selling twice as many units when released on the same platform as Twilight Princess. There are confounding factors here (the Wind Waker re-release may have had a larger "missed it the first time" audience, and there were probably fewer active Wii U users in 2016 than 2013) but it's the closest thing to an apples to apples comparison here.

Another big confounder is that the WiiU won't play gamecube games, but it will play Wii games, so someone who wanted to play Wind Waker and has a WiiU needs to buy the WiiU version, but someone with a WiiU and wants to play Twilight Princess can buy the Wii version or the WiiU version.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#153

Post by pessimizer »

icu wrote: post #26

I think you got to discount points of view from the perspective of how valuable their perspective is to your goal. The problem with social media and open forums is that it’s not obvious and takes time to figure out who’s who. Having said that, it seems a little childish to me that Ron just shut down the haters. I think that there might be a bit of his ego attached to the outcome versus the process. I can only specula…

> it seems a little childish to me that Ron just shut down the haters.

Maybe, but there are too many comments for a flat page like that to be useful anyway (other than the first 50 or so comments.) Nothing of value was lost.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#154

Post by bena »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #47
chomp wrote: post #14

Gamers are the most entitled consumer group I've ever seen. It's astounding. Someone wants to create something, and there's just so much hate and negativity on something that people didn't even pay for. I've seen it on HN also. Someone creates a thing, and then people pour out of the woodwork to lump horrible criticism. No one is asking for blind praise for what they create, but surely there's a middle ground between…

Counterpoint: I used to feel the same way about the entitlement. Then I stopped and thought about how many "hours worked" the average game costs for a person on minimum wage. While the minimum wage has risen dramatically in my area, to at least $12/hr, with games costing upwards of $80 now, that's still almost 2 full days, after taxes. It's easy to forget when people on this board are probably all making at least low…

Think about how many hours worked the average game takes to make.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#155

Post by corrral »

belfalas wrote: post #143
munificent wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the main reasons I was happy to leave the game industry after eight years of doing it. Working incredibly hard to build a product served to a group of people that are often hurtful emotionally stunted man-children is just a deeply demoralizing experience. Obviously, many gamers aren't like that. But a fucking whole lot of them are, and they are extremely vocal, and it doesn't take many of them to suck…

> Imagine a bar where every time you walked in the door a half dozen dudes invariably turned around on their barstools and told you your clothes look like shit, your face is disgusting, you hair style is stupid, you smell like trash and, you should just fucking kill yourself now. How often would you want to go there? Replace the word 'bar' with 'school' and this sounds like a write-up of my much of my pre-university…

I'm convinced that junior high and high school, at least in the US, amount to mass child abuse. Like, structurally, that's just what they are, almost unavoidably without totally changing how they work.

Even decent school experiences are, by the standards of the adult world, crazy-bad.

How many people have anxiety-nightmares for a decade or more after graduating high school? How many unavoidable experiences in life so consistently generate that kind of thing? How many develop sleep disorders in school, that follow them for life? Depression? They're really, really bad.

I had a quite good school experience and that ~6-year span is still, as I approach 40, far and away the worst part of my life. It's not even close. Nothing else half that bad has lasted even one year, let alone six.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#156

Post by adamius »

I've recently done some art projects. The comments/feedback can be really bad. Really soul-destroying.

The trick is to weight them correctly. Multiply positive by 5. Then re-evaluate. It helps. Negative people find water disgusting and yet water is a necessity for life. Its therefore very important to keep perspective.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#157

Post by adamrezich »

Osmose wrote: post #149
adamrezich wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the current top comment in this comments section is also decrying the Entitled, Toxic Gamers that are the cause of all that is Bad and Wrong in the world of video games today—have you ever noticed how convenient of a recurring boogeyman this is? "gamers are the worst , they suck and are terrible. no, not you , of course—you're not a gamer , you're a Cultured Video Game Enjoyer, just like me, the writer of this Kotaku…

I dunno why you think demanding that people can't feel hurt on the internet is any less overbearing than condemning people who are mean on the internet.

I'm not sure where I issued such a demand, but, it should be obvious that it is easier to learn to deal with the existence of negative Internet shitposting than it is to try to morally posture it into nonexistence, despite the latter feeling good.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#158

Post by soneca »

prvc wrote: post #126

I think a lot of the comments in this (HN) thread are falsely assuming that he is reacting to the tone of the comments, rather than the fact that they don't seem to like what he has shared. Having read only a small sample of the linked comments, they seem to be overall civil but negative, which is probably even worse news for an approval-hungry creator than a rude response. There is a ready-made narrative about the b…

> ” falsely assuming that he is reacting to the tone of the comments”

I think you are wrong. The assumption that he is reacting to the tone is correct. He explicitly said that he is closing comments due to personal attacks.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#159

Post by bena »

dylan-m wrote: post #99
poszlem wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could not agree more. A lot of game producers get this arrogant approach of: "Making games would be such awesome job if it wasn't for those pesky gamers". The question here is: "Is this a really innovative graphical design that will get praised by future generations but is misunderstood now" or "Is this just a bad decision that the creator is unwilling to own". I tend to think it's the latter. Ultimately the sales…

> We have seen the same thing happen to Star Wars where the legitimate criticism was painted as toxicity of the fandom. Hold on a minute here. Yes, the racist assholes got more attention than they deserved. But Rise of the Skywalker was thrown together by a bunch of marketing executives looking through all that “legitimate criticism”, making a big checklist, and feeding it into their lifeless movie factory to create…

This is one area where I think Nintendo and Apple really excel at.

They hardly, if ever, cave to user "wants", because they understand that often, the user has no fucking clue what they actually want.

It's why they manage to succeed despite initial opinions being so against them. It's because often the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Looking at a thing can only tell you so much, it's only when you are able to actually experience the thing will you be able to judge whether it is good or not.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#160

Post by jamesgeck0 »

atwood22 wrote: post #8

I don't understand the outrage at this art style. Granted, I've never played any of the Monkey Island games, and have no emotional attachment to the content. To me, the art style seems very similar to a Cartoon Network cartoon, and that may have broad appeal to kids today. Like I kind of understand why people are upset: this thing you loved 32 years ago is being vandalized in your eyes. However, you're really old now…

> I don't understand the outrage at this art style.

Oh, that's easy. It's reminiscent of free Flash games popular a couple decades ago. Vector graphics are somewhat less common in games these days, so my first impression was that the art style looked a bit cheap and dated.

Post reply on HN