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“The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

grumpygamer.com

131–140 of 280 posts

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#131
post #14

Gamers are the most entitled consumer group I've ever seen. It's astounding. Someone wants to create something, and there's just so much hate and negativity on something that people didn't even pay for. I've seen it on HN also. Someone creates a thing, and then people pour out of the woodwork to lump horrible criticism. No one is asking for blind praise for what they create, but surely there's a middle ground between…

Counterpoint: I used to feel the same way about the entitlement. Then I stopped and thought about how many "hours worked" the average game costs for a person on minimum wage. While the minimum wage has risen dramatically in my area, to at least $12/hr, with games costing upwards of $80 now, that's still almost 2 full days, after taxes. It's easy to forget when people on this board are probably all making at least low…

That same economic analysis plays unfavorably the other direction: games right now are among the cheapest $/entertainment-hour value of any "modern" entertainment industry right now. Even if you only got 60 hours out of that $80 game, which is still the "entitled minimum" in many gamers' minds, that still $1.33 per entertainment-hour. You aren't going to find that at the movie theaters or on Blu-Ray. Maybe you can find better deals in streaming: if you only pay the $20/month for Netflix and maybe get 20-30 entertainment-hours per month you can beat that. If on the other hand you like so many others are paying for more than one streaming service you probably aren't anywhere near that in your spend on entertainment-hours.

That $80 videogame can still feed (entertainment to) a family of four for months.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what alternative course of action do you suggest instead? I don't understand why you think people should continue to be surprised by wholly predictable reactions contingent upon inherently flawed human behavior. hopefully your solution isn't simple moral posturing that Things Should Be Better, because that might feel good to say but as a solution it's pretty obviously untenable. regardless: either Ron Gilbert is, som…

presumably the last time he made a game people weren't such huge dicks about it... no big deal but modern gamers cause a chilling effect in the industry by behaving this way, inevitably. Creative professionals /don't/ have to get used to being punching bags.. they're exactly the type to take their toys and go home. That's what happens when you do something for love (and take a pay cut to do it). The hateful gamers wi…

the current top comment in this comments section is also decrying the Entitled, Toxic Gamers that are the cause of all that is Bad and Wrong in the world of video games today—have you ever noticed how convenient of a recurring boogeyman this is?

"gamers are the worst, they suck and are terrible. no, not you, of course—you're not a gamer, you're a Cultured Video Game Enjoyer, just like me, the writer of this Kotaku article. you and I are different from these vile and horrible "gamers", who aren't being misogynist or racist today but you just know any day now they'll be back to doing that too. how we hate them! now anyway, the latest vile act that these abject villains have done is make Ron Gilbert sad by writing mean words about an unreleased video game based upon trailer footage, on the Internet. imagine! being mean to Ron Gilbert, celebrated adventure game designer! the nerve of these gamers. how we hate them! now, Cultured Video Game Enjoyer, what do you think about the art style of Return to Monkey Island? do you love it? answer carefully, because the only people who don't love it are those people we hate, those untermenschen 'gamers'! now answer: how great is Return to Monkey Island's art style?"

don't you find the rise of this kind of rhetoric over the past 15 years or so, and all of the moralizing it entails, to be at the very least curious? "othering" a broad, diverse population of people by strawmanning them as though they were a political party or something, generalizing based upon anonymous Internet comments, an eternal beast of a boogeyman who is always lurking in the shadows just out of sight, only to emerge in the public consciousness now and again as the driving force of moral outrage that you should definitely feel very strongly about, because as we all know there is no greater evil in the world than typing mean words into an Internet-connected text field and clicking "Submit", right? and it always seems to happen whenever somebody wants their personal and/or game's profile to be raised, whenever it sure would be nice for all involved if more sympathetic Cultured Video Game Enjoyers would point more of their eyeballs at the person and/or product being promoted, on grounds of moralizing against the uncultured gamer swine, and above all, proving that you're not one of them.

idk for me after 15 years of this shit it's pretty old by now and that kind of appeal-to-emotion persuasion doesn't faze me in the slightest anymore. some people said some mean words on the Internet to a guy who's going to release a video game later this year, and it made the guy sad. that's a bummer, but I just can't bring myself to get worked up in the way the Video Game Journalism Industry wants me to—I'm kind of done being emotionally manipulated by everyone in that sphere. I don't need to "identify as" either a "gamer" or a Cultured Video Game Enjoyer to enjoy video games, so it's not hard to reject the attempted pseudo-political cultural bifurcation here by rejecting the whole dichotomy and saying "lol video games amirite"—and I recommend others do the same!

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#134
post #14

Gamers are the most entitled consumer group I've ever seen. It's astounding. Someone wants to create something, and there's just so much hate and negativity on something that people didn't even pay for. I've seen it on HN also. Someone creates a thing, and then people pour out of the woodwork to lump horrible criticism. No one is asking for blind praise for what they create, but surely there's a middle ground between…

Counterpoint: I used to feel the same way about the entitlement. Then I stopped and thought about how many "hours worked" the average game costs for a person on minimum wage. While the minimum wage has risen dramatically in my area, to at least $12/hr, with games costing upwards of $80 now, that's still almost 2 full days, after taxes. It's easy to forget when people on this board are probably all making at least low…

I think the cost correlates pretty well with the effort of producing the game.

I offer as a comparison the wireless providers with 60% corporate profits that everyone pays - with a job or without one.

(although I do dislike the psychological manipulation and personal-info gathering games that grown)

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#135
post #126

I think a lot of the comments in this (HN) thread are falsely assuming that he is reacting to the tone of the comments, rather than the fact that they don't seem to like what he has shared. Having read only a small sample of the linked comments, they seem to be overall civil but negative, which is probably even worse news for an approval-hungry creator than a rude response. There is a ready-made narrative about the b…

No, what you saw were the comments after he moderated out the comments telling him to kill himself, that he and is colleagues are useless, etc.

He left behind the critical comments that were otherwise polite.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#138
post #38
post #14

Gamers are the most entitled consumer group I've ever seen. It's astounding. Someone wants to create something, and there's just so much hate and negativity on something that people didn't even pay for. I've seen it on HN also. Someone creates a thing, and then people pour out of the woodwork to lump horrible criticism. No one is asking for blind praise for what they create, but surely there's a middle ground between…

> Gamers are the most entitled consumer group I've ever seen True, but Some open source communities are good candidates for "most entitled consumers". > I've seen it on HN also I will ever remember the launch of Dropbox here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863

What does dropbox have to do with "open source communities"

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#139

I feel bad for him, but really the problem is he’s made a directorial mistake and it looks like the only point it’s gonna click is when the sales numbers hit. Will he realize his mistaken then or will he continue to blame the customer?

Exactly.

Top Gun 2 is great example of understanding the audience. it was a love letter to the fans.

Gilbert made it all about himself with no awareness of what other people thought. That's his biggest mistake. He keeps saying he making the game HE wants to make. He really doesn't care about the fans, and they noticed. I strongly suspect it will only get uglier between the deep monkey island fans who kept the brand alive and Gilbert.

If Ron wants to make art, then make art. But Monkey Island was never art for the sake of art. A far more successful revival that pleased the fans was Broken Sword 5.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#140

Something I’ve increasingly felt is that nobody should feel like they’re under any obligation to read comments on what they do or replies to what they say. In the days before the internet the options for direct feedback to an author or creator were limited and often the author or creator could or would just ignore them. It was considered a good idea! Now people have things like forums for their games or comments on t…

I agree. People who have a gripe or criticism are more inclined to comment than a person who enjoys the product. It reminds me of the old saying "assholes always advertise." It's best to ignore or take those comments with a grain of salt. However, that's often easier said than done.
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