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US hypersonic missile fails in test- 2nd consecutive failed attempt

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Re: US hypersonic missile fails in test- 2nd consecutive failed attempt

#81

I often wonder why defense companies openly advertise their failures. Maybe it's for optics.

"Hey world! Look what we're building - we're not afraid of you or our failures!"

It's a very strong message. It's also propaganda, to control the narrative, distract and deceive.

Maybe they already know it's a dead end, or this is a test bed for something else. The cancelled rail-gun seemed like a giant materials science project, but maybe the Navy got _exactly_ what they needed.

Re: US hypersonic missile fails in test- 2nd consecutive failed attempt

#82
post #18

Given that the bomber gap, missile gap and the cruiser gap was all shown to be fictional, I do wonder if the perceived hypersonic gap is real.

Don't forget the ekranoplan gap.

Useless in rough seas and on the ocean. There's a reason they operated on the Caspian Sea.

Re: US hypersonic missile fails in test- 2nd consecutive failed attempt

#83
post #44

Hypersonic is very unfortunate term, because it makes people assume that hypersonic speed is the new thing in these. X15 was manned hypersonic vehicle in 1959. Pershing II had maneuverable hypersonic re-entry vehicle in the 80s. ICBM's are hypersonic or high hypersonic. Space shuttle was a hypersonic glider, so is X-37 currently operated by the US Space Force.

"Technically", "hypersonic" means "scary because it's hard to intercept" and "NATO is behind Russia and China on this". Elementary military marketing.

Re: US hypersonic missile fails in test- 2nd consecutive failed attempt

#84

Given that the bomber gap, missile gap and the cruiser gap was all shown to be fictional, I do wonder if the perceived hypersonic gap is real.

I generally find that the US lags in weapons technology whose biggest utility lies in countering American superweapons - carriers and stealth fighters. I think it's quite understandable why this is the case - imagine spending hundreds of billions on carrier procurement, and simultaneously developing a weapon that more or less renders them obsolete. The situation has changed in that there's news that the Russians and…

Innovator’s Dilemma in action :-)

Re: US hypersonic missile fails in test- 2nd consecutive failed attempt

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. No one has "real" hypersonic missiles that travel in the atmosphere for extended periods(*1). The heating problems for shock impingment in non-"simple conicals" has *not* been overcome and won't be. "Hypersonic" missiles are mostly just ICBMs with a very brief passage through the dense lower atmosphere where there's enough lift. And if they try to go higher up to escape the heat flux there's not enough for l…

"Sprint accelerated at 100 g, reaching a speed of Mach 10 (12,300 km/h; 7,610 mph) in 5 seconds. Such a high velocity at relatively low altitudes created skin temperatures up to 6,200 °F (3,430 °C)" This is in 1975.

You beat me to it! This timecoded link shows the launch sequence of the Sprint with a tracking shot of the vehicle itself. Pretty remarkable watching it start to glow white:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dl9Ovwmnxw&t=220s

I think this is the first video on that channel where the subject can match the guy's cadence. It's a great overview of the development of the Sprint though, worth watching if it's of interest.

Re: US hypersonic missile fails in test- 2nd consecutive failed attempt

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. No one has "real" hypersonic missiles that travel in the atmosphere for extended periods(*1). The heating problems for shock impingment in non-"simple conicals" has *not* been overcome and won't be. "Hypersonic" missiles are mostly just ICBMs with a very brief passage through the dense lower atmosphere where there's enough lift. And if they try to go higher up to escape the heat flux there's not enough for l…

"Sprint accelerated at 100 g, reaching a speed of Mach 10 (12,300 km/h; 7,610 mph) in 5 seconds. Such a high velocity at relatively low altitudes created skin temperatures up to 6,200 °F (3,430 °C)" This is in 1975.

Ah yes, Sprint - for when having a 5kt bomb go off over your city is the good outcome.

Terminal ballistic missile defense is hard!

Re: US hypersonic missile fails in test- 2nd consecutive failed attempt

#88
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with you, but Russia IS firing the 3M22 Zircon from nuclear subs now. At Mach 9, that's about 2-3 minutes to impact DC. And everyone knows, first strike, best strike. Putin would survive.

Why does it matter what order the strikes are in? Unless the first strike somehow manages to wipe out the ability to retaliate, the order just determines how we queue up for the reaper (I guess first is best, there'd be a billions long line).

> Why does it matter what order the strikes are in?

If you know where the other nation's leader is, first strike allows you a better chance at eliminating them. It's a marginal benefit. And Russia is more vulnerable to it. (Putin disappearing could create a violent scramble for power that diminishes its military's retaliatory capabilities in a way that taking out the President and say half the Cabinet would not.)

Re: US hypersonic missile fails in test- 2nd consecutive failed attempt

#89

I'm far more concerned with defence against them than otherwise.

The best defense is probably still going to MAD with second strike capabilities. Assuming that a hypersonic first strike would destroy a majority of our silos and bombers, we'll probably have to beef up our submarine fleet.

No, we can defend against these weapons just like we defend against regular cruise and ballistic missiles ... just 'better'.

If it flies we can stop it.

Re: US hypersonic missile fails in test- 2nd consecutive failed attempt

#90

Given that the bomber gap, missile gap and the cruiser gap was all shown to be fictional, I do wonder if the perceived hypersonic gap is real.

I generally find that the US lags in weapons technology whose biggest utility lies in countering American superweapons - carriers and stealth fighters. I think it's quite understandable why this is the case - imagine spending hundreds of billions on carrier procurement, and simultaneously developing a weapon that more or less renders them obsolete. The situation has changed in that there's news that the Russians and…

When developing advanced military capabilities, the US usually runs offensive and defensive programs in parallel. Beyond the "what if our enemy had this" aspect of the conversation, having a good model of what an advanced defensive system might look like informs design choices on the offensive side.

Too many people conflate the US deeming a weapons technology relatively ineffective given the (classified) capability matrix of their other systems with them not having the technology. Hypersonic endo-atmospheric guided missiles, for example, is an area where the US has deep design expertise going back several decades. They were designing and testing hypersonic guided missiles for battlefield(!) use in the 1980s.

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