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The Pentagon uses a secret program to wage proxy wars

theintercept.com

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Re: The Pentagon uses a secret program to wage proxy wars

#51

Post by giraffe_lady »

rayiner wrote: post #39
ahelwer wrote: post #11

I recently read the book The Jakarta Method and it was extremely eye-opening. I'd previously heard a very abridged account of what happened in Indonesia in the 60s from Chomsky, but this book goes and examines how the same pattern was intentionally repeated by the US in many countries throughout the world. It is scarcely an exaggeration to say the US successfully inflicted a fourth reich on the global south over the…

Is the term “global south” like the term “black and brown people?” A concept that lumps together huge swaths of the world’s population that have nothing to do with each other, and reduces them to subjects in a moralistic rant against Americans/Europeans/whites?

Is that a question because it seems like you've already decided what it is.

Re: The Pentagon uses a secret program to wage proxy wars

#52

Post by hahaitsfunny »

ahelwer wrote: post #33
lp0_on_fire wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't deny that. I just said calling it the "fourth reich" is hyperbole. Do you honestly believe, without hyperbole, that these actions are on the same level as those committed by the Nazis while they were in power. You know they were responsible for the genocide of millions at an industrial scale, yes?

Millions of people died in Indonesia, Vietnam, and elsewhere. It is absolutely on the same order of magnitude.

Let's not forget about Ukraine too with the CIA training far-right paramilitaries to fight Russia...

https://news.yahoo.com/cia-trained-ukrainian-paramilitaries-...

Re: The Pentagon uses a secret program to wage proxy wars

#53

Post by giraffe_lady »

lp0_on_fire wrote: post #25
ahelwer wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US funded, trained, armed, and supported with propaganda fascist elements in many countries that came to political power and committed mass murders, all for our benefit. Call it whatever you want. "Far from perfect", just lol.

I didn't deny that. I just said calling it the "fourth reich" is hyperbole. Do you honestly believe, without hyperbole, that these actions are on the same level as those committed by the Nazis while they were in power. You know they were responsible for the genocide of millions at an industrial scale, yes?

keep going bc you're on the right track.

Re: The Pentagon uses a secret program to wage proxy wars

#55

Post by hitpointdrew »

tablespoon wrote: post #20
pibechorro wrote: post #15

End all wars. Bring all troops home. Close all foreign bases. Use the budget to empower the citizens. A well regulated militia of you and I for world peace.

> End all wars. Bring all troops home. Close all foreign bases. Use the budget to empower the citizens. A well regulated militia of you and I for world peace. ...let the Russian flag fly over the Baltics.

That sounds like the Baltic's problem to solve.

Re: The Pentagon uses a secret program to wage proxy wars

#56

Post by ahelwer »

vorpalhex wrote: post #50
ahelwer wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go watch CNN for an entire day and write down how many times Yemen or Palestine is mentioned compared with Ukraine. Come up with your own hypothesis about why this is. It's more complicated than just "government control", but thankfully people have been thinking about this for a while. You've probably heard of the book Manufacturing Consent which goes into all the structural incentives at play in the media which lead…

I both read and watch news heavily, including both US news and international outlets. No, that comparison doesn't come up literally ever that I've heard from. I do recall several anti-war pieces in NY Times and others encouraging us to not back Ukraine, the usual war hawk pieces suggesting to escalate, and a bunch of poorly written stories that rehashed weeks old tweets. As the joke goes there are two kinds of people…

The point of analyzing structural incentives is that you don't need a conspiracy. Everyone involved actually believes they are fully and truthfully discharging their duties and fighting the good fight. None of them are walking around plotting how to pull the wool over the public's eyes. They wouldn't be hired if they believed otherwise; there's a famous clip of Chomsky making this point here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nBx-37c3c8

Re: The Pentagon uses a secret program to wage proxy wars

#57

Post by impeplague »

lizardactivist wrote: post #8
hereme888 wrote: post #5

So we have no idea what the reasons behind these operations are, and yet people criticize them? That's foolishness. Well, the replies and downvotes certainly augment the foolishness. Assuming operations in Africa are for keeping countries repressed rather than promoting freedom and justice for those who can't fight for themselves, etc. The US is not innocent, but through their actions and 100 years of selflessly poli…

Reasons: 1. to keep African countries divided to further American policies and agendas 2. to thwart development, own exploitation of natural resources, and the possible rise of Africa as another super-power

Given that they are losing power in Asia, Europe and even Latin America, they need new low-wage modern slaves to maintain the neded economic output.

China is stepping out of that role and will likely make them take a loss at their own game.

Re: The Pentagon uses a secret program to wage proxy wars

#60

Post by formerkrogemp »

elbigbad wrote: post #26
tablespoon wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> End all wars. Bring all troops home. Close all foreign bases. Use the budget to empower the citizens. A well regulated militia of you and I for world peace. ...let the Russian flag fly over the Baltics.

I think we forget over time and become complacent to the strong possibility that the US maintaining its economic and defense hegemony has generally resulted in fewer people doing bad things. So you go from a generation who used the military might to stop literal Nazis and effectively save the world, to more of a lull where people forget that and start calling for a removal of all foreign bases and a reduction in migh…

Let me fix this for you.

> I think we forget over time and become complacent to the strong possibility that the US maintaining its economic and defense hegemony has generally resulted in fewer non-American people doing bad things.

American hegemony is mostly good for the US. Let's not lie about doing 'good' elsewhere. American actions have destabilized many countries and governments to secure and advance American interests. Have American citizens benefited? Probably.

> So you go from a generation who used the military might to stop literal Nazis and effectively save the world. Follow that up with generations of overthrowing democratically elected governments and fostering civil wars globally.

> to more of a lull where people forget that and start calling for a removal of all foreign bases and a reduction in might, to being smacked by the reality again that bad people predictably do bad things, such as russias invasion of ukraine.

I don't think people want a removal of all naval bases or military presence, just enough to pay for fucking healthcare, teachers, food, bridges, and housing. You know the usual basic necessities for life. I guess killing and maiming people around the world is just easier to do.

> it’s good overall that we have this military might, even if not everyone appreciates it. That remains to be seen. Tell me that in a few years when we have more guns than food and water.

As always, unless you're colorblind, the world exists in color, not black and white.

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