Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#271

Post by yuuu » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 3:32 PM UTC

adamsmith143 wrote: post #264

yuuu wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a state where marijuana is legal and recently tried it again for the first time in over a decade. I strolled into a recreational store and asked for a recommendation, specifically requesting a flower with a low THC concentration. They ended up giving me something ("Biker Kush") that had 28% THC, which I had only noticed on the packaging after I left the store. Gee, thanks. Anyway, then I bought supplies to…

> The feeling that I would be stuck like this forever - that I had lost my mind and entered some state of irreversible psychosis - persisted for at least an hour while I desperately tried to relax myself. Prototypical bad trip. Unless you are a mutant or were not inhaling at all you were certainly ingesting high amounts of THC and were getting higher while not subjectively realizing it. By the 4th hit you were far go…

But how does such a dramatic change happen when waiting twenty minutes between hits? My wife was also an objective observer of my behavior in between hits and noticed no changes between the first three. The experience after the fourth was extremely different - more than I think one hit could possibly provide. My understanding is that joints and one-hit vaporizers are the best option to "control" how much you are ingesting. My experience, though, is that it did not provide a good amount of control. When I was not accidentally combusting the cannabis, I was unsure if I was inhaling anything from what was supposed to be the "vaporized" amount. Maybe it's because of my lack of consistent and good heating and inhaling practices.

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#272

Post by bogomipz » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 3:33 PM UTC

ssfhsfhdjs wrote: post #205

snarfy wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I lived in Arizona before it was legal, the vast majority of weed came from Mexico. A quarter pound cost $200 and was a mix of male and female plants, full of seeds, grown in fields. I was a daily user for about 20 years. I moved to coastal state where it was legal. Now it's all hydroponically grown, all female and all seedless. I was a daily user for about 12 years and had to completely stop using it. It would…

I'm struggling with this now. Daily cannabis user for 15 year or so, started puking not long after I'd switched primarily to concentrates. I've landed in the ER several times, and been hospitalized a handful of times for dehydration. Usually once an episode starts, a cocktail of ativan, reglan, and pepcid is about the only thing that'll get me out of it. I've tried to quit cannabis several times now, but usually brea…

There was an article this past week in the nytimes about this where a young woman was experiencing this. The diagnosis was "Cannabis hyperemesis." The article is here if you are interested:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/23/well/mind/teens-thc-canna...

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#273

Post by jamesakirk » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 3:33 PM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #212

yccs27 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we would ever legalize cigarettes and alcohol if they weren't already widespread. You cited the numbers yourself, it would be a terrible decision. But lots of people are already using these substances, and we've seen how well it works to make alcohol illegal... The reason cigs/alcohol are legal has nothing to do with their addictiveness or the harm they do, so a comparison with them. The anti-legalizati…

Banning tobacco is plausible because it's somewhat difficult to grow the plants. But you can't ban alcohol. Anybody can produce it. You can literally produce it by accident.

Yeast has been genetically modified to produce psilocybin ( https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S109671761... ). Researches have yielded the equivalent of about 60g dried shroom in only 1 liter of solution. When psychedelics become as easy to produce as beer, the world is gonna be a whole lot weirder.

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#274

Post by noneeeed » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

selfmodruntime wrote: post #3

I think the legalization of cannabis in Europe has a lot of potential. I just wish that we would take measures to avoid the ever increasing levels of THC dosage in weed to insane levels, like you see in the US or California specifically. I firmly believe that cannabis can do a lot of good, but the poison is in the dosage. It has been shown in the past that increasing THC while decreasing CBD leads to an increase in n…

One option would be to tax it based on the amount of thc. Get the rates right and you could make it more profitable to produce less potent stuff.

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#275

Post by lucideer » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

NoGravitas wrote: post #172

lucideer wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case, that would reinforce my instinct. There's certainly a recent cocktail boom, and there was a brief trend of straight vodka being popular with girls my age when I was in college, but these are passing market phases, not something systemic in the industry. By-and-large ~5% beers and ~12% wines are the popular choice today.

It seems like the biggest growth in the industry is in hard seltzers/alcopops, which range from 4-12%, but mostly on the lower end. So it does seem like in general there's a preference for strengths in a range of beer - craft beer - wine.

Speaking of trends, there's currently a trend in beer world where I am in "low-ABV" and "0.0" products. Not sure if it'll be lasting, but I guess that along with the emergence of some things like 0% wines and even "spirits" (distilled botanical infusions) is further anecdata.

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#276

Post by lucideer » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 3:38 PM UTC

dfxm12 wrote: post #177

lucideer wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm not proposing "doing nothing" about this problem, how much of this is likely to be a "hangover" from prohibition. Based on absolutely no data whatsoever, my instinct would be that demand for high-THC/low-CBD products would decrease as access to cannabis becomes less novel.

Or people would use less. I think national regulation around standard strength, doses, labeling, etc. could help here in a way that legalization (or decriminalization) at a smaller level can't.

> Or people would use less.

Not sure what form you buy your weed in, but typically reducing the dose is not as straightforward as it would be with, e.g. a powdered or liquid product.

> national regulation [...] could help here in a way that legalization [...] can't.

I'm not sure I follow - are you proposing regulation in addition to legalization, or instead of? I don't really understand how the latter would work (or why they would/should be mutually exclusive) but maybe I'm just misinterpreting?

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#277

Post by TillE » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 3:40 PM UTC

humanistbot wrote: post #254

> The hemp industry is lobbying the German government to tax cannabis products at no more than €10 a gramme of bud This is double the street cost of the product. The black market will thrive.

Yeah this is absurdly high, and a really bad sign if that's what the industry is asking for. My real hope for the law is that small-scale home growing will be allowed, but I'm not very optimistic.

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#278

Post by standardUser » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

selfmodruntime wrote: post #3

I think the legalization of cannabis in Europe has a lot of potential. I just wish that we would take measures to avoid the ever increasing levels of THC dosage in weed to insane levels, like you see in the US or California specifically. I firmly believe that cannabis can do a lot of good, but the poison is in the dosage. It has been shown in the past that increasing THC while decreasing CBD leads to an increase in n…

The solution to this is a legal marketplace.

I was able to start buying lower-potency weed in California as soon as recreational stores became established. Now, I'm waiting around for the same in NY and buying weed that is way too strong in the meantime. A joint as 10-15% THC with some CBD is an entirely different experience than the 25% and up THC that most dealers sell (and that's usually all they sell).

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#279

Post by alistairSH » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 3:44 PM UTC

selfmodruntime wrote: post #3

I think the legalization of cannabis in Europe has a lot of potential. I just wish that we would take measures to avoid the ever increasing levels of THC dosage in weed to insane levels, like you see in the US or California specifically. I firmly believe that cannabis can do a lot of good, but the poison is in the dosage. It has been shown in the past that increasing THC while decreasing CBD leads to an increase in n…

How does this apply with edibles or oils? I assume since most of those are sold with a published THC level, there's an incentive to produce stronger plant? Less plant for more edible/oil/whatever?

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#280

Post by standardUser » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 3:44 PM UTC

peanut_worm wrote: post #256

selfmodruntime wrote: post #3

I think the legalization of cannabis in Europe has a lot of potential. I just wish that we would take measures to avoid the ever increasing levels of THC dosage in weed to insane levels, like you see in the US or California specifically. I firmly believe that cannabis can do a lot of good, but the poison is in the dosage. It has been shown in the past that increasing THC while decreasing CBD leads to an increase in n…

You can still find lower THC cannabis at any dispensary. Most carry from 10 to 30%. Most also carry CBD flower and very low dose edibles. I also don’t understand this argument because you can just take 1 hit and be done. No one is forcing you to finish a whole joint. Should liquor be outlawed because it is stronger than beer?

It's really hard to dose "1 hit". It's not like a shot of liquor. And inexperienced users are not experts at hitting pipes or vapes or joints, so that "1 hit" becomes even trickier. And if you fuck up, whoops, now you're uncomfortably high for several hours!

Better to have a much wider variety of potencies available, like we have with alcohol. Especially for the casual users who have been ignored by the market because traditional dealers get most of their money from heavy users, and heavy users want the chronic.