Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Where does Google actually say that they won’t read Gmail or Google Docs?

blogs.law.harvard.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 94 posts

Re: Where does Google actually say that they won’t read Gmail or Google Docs?

#51

Post by dotBen »

the tl:dr of this comment thread is that most HN'ers have sadly taken the question too literally and are commenting on the fact Google reads emails with a definition of "read" being that of "parse" (ie computationally). I think most people know and expect they obviously do that, for advertising targeting etc. I can't believe people are shocked or surprised at that.

Which is a shame because I think it's pretty clear the OP is actually asking about Google employees reading your email, which is a valid question but sadly lost in the fight over semantics. :/

Re: Where does Google actually say that they won’t read Gmail or Google Docs?

#52

Post by pyre »

jcdreads wrote: post #45
angdis wrote: post #24

The real question is not whether google, dropbox or anyone else has explicit "policies" about reading content from users. They're just going to say whatever makes them look good from a marketing and legal perspective. Companies lie all the time, systematically and comprehensively. They act in their own self-interest period. From their point of view it is merely a question of how much they can get away with. The more…

Even if you trust a company not to do you harm with the information they store, there exist entities that can compel them to turn this information over. For example, the information can be (sometimes secretly) subpoenaed by the U.S. government. The choice between being evil and not being evil can be an easier one to make, practically speaking, than the choice between being evil and becoming the target of federal crim…

What are the chances that some random hosting company won't just do the same thing if you ran all of your services on a VPS or colo box?

Re: Where does Google actually say that they won’t read Gmail or Google Docs?

#53

Post by marshray »

Retric wrote: post #14
Bud wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Misleading. What that document actually says is this: No, but automatic scanning and filtering technology is at the heart of Gmail. Gmail scans and processes all messages using fully automated systems in order to do useful and innovative stuff like filter spam, detect viruses and malware, show relevant ads, and develop and deliver new features across your Google experience. Priority Inbox, spell checking, forwarding,…

I think there is a basic disconnect. There is no way for a computer to anything with an email (save it, give it to you etc) without 'reading' it's contents. So the only meaningful thing for people to worry about is decoding the content which IMO means a spam filter does not qualify as decoding. Nor does displaying adds for tires if the word cars shows up in your email.

So when you visit my website and I see Google pushing ads to you for Justin Bieber posters and pillowcases http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003FCXDRM/ we'll know Google isn't reading your Gmail.

... or are they? ;-)

Re: Where does Google actually say that they won’t read Gmail or Google Docs?

#54

Post by herbivore »

chc wrote: post #50
herbivore wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine you're a startup and use gmail or Google Apps for your team communications, even customer service. One day Google decides it wants to acquire you. During negotiations, it has access to all email exchanges between you and your customers and, more importantly, you and your investors / team members. So there's definitely something "in it" for them to do so.

If you had strong evidence that Google was spying on you (especially for such anti-competitive reasons), you'd have them over a barrel a lot more than vice-versa.

Well, I don't. That's how convenient this arrangement is :)

Re: Where does Google actually say that they won’t read Gmail or Google Docs?

#55

Post by AgentConundrum »

marshray wrote: post #53
Retric wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a basic disconnect. There is no way for a computer to anything with an email (save it, give it to you etc) without 'reading' it's contents. So the only meaningful thing for people to worry about is decoding the content which IMO means a spam filter does not qualify as decoding. Nor does displaying adds for tires if the word cars shows up in your email.

So when you visit my website and I see Google pushing ads to you for Justin Bieber posters and pillowcases http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003FCXDRM/ we'll know Google isn't reading your Gmail. ... or are they? ;-)

Google does read your email for ads, and that fact is spelled out in their answer quoted above. AdWords/AdSense doesn't only apply to the content of the site you happen to be on, but is an aggregate of all they've learned about you over time. This means that data they collect from relevant keywords in an email is used to show relevant ads to you on a separate website.

I've never used AdSense so I don't know how it works. Is it possible for the site owner to read the ads that are displayed to you on a website? Does Google "leak" collected ad data to other websites which use AdSense? Or are these ads typically displayed in something like an iframe, where possibly the "host" website can't read them?

Re: Where does Google actually say that they won’t read Gmail or Google Docs?

#58

Post by ianferrel »

jodrellblank wrote: post #20

How could they? They have ~24,000 employees and 260 million Gmail users. http://www.quora.com/How-many-employees-does-Google-have and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmail respectively. (Although off the top of my head, they do say they will automatically scan all email for the purposes of advertising, spam filtering, etc. and the debate used to be "does this count as reading if no human is involved?").

That just proves that they can't read everybody's email.

Re: Where does Google actually say that they won’t read Gmail or Google Docs?

#59

Post by X-Istence »

AgentConundrum wrote: post #55
marshray wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So when you visit my website and I see Google pushing ads to you for Justin Bieber posters and pillowcases http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003FCXDRM/ we'll know Google isn't reading your Gmail. ... or are they? ;-)

Google does read your email for ads, and that fact is spelled out in their answer quoted above. AdWords/AdSense doesn't only apply to the content of the site you happen to be on, but is an aggregate of all they've learned about you over time. This means that data they collect from relevant keywords in an email is used to show relevant ads to you on a separate website. I've never used AdSense so I don't know how it wo…

Google's Ads are served in an iframe.

Re: Where does Google actually say that they won’t read Gmail or Google Docs?

#60

Post by X-Istence »

dspeyer wrote: post #48
ap22213 wrote: post #29

How many individuals at google have the ability to read a particular person's personal data? If I'm a moderately important person[1], how many individuals, in or outside of google, will have access to any of that data over the life of it? And, how does google internally police against misuse? And, who watches the watchman? [1] say, 1 in a thousand, of which google has 260,000 such gmail users

Probably about 50 altogether. Each of us promises to never ever look at personal data, before being granted privileges. And I'm pretty sure all those promises are serious. I don't know how enforcement works, though a single offense would be firing-worthy.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2369188,00.asp
Post reply on HN