Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric • Hacker News Board

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#71

Post by DowsingSpoon » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 7:46 PM UTC

wildmanx wrote: post #20

burlesona wrote: post #6

California is next to the ocean, so if we really wanted to secure the water supply we have technological answers available. Nuclear desalination has been used at scale across the globe for decades, and it's not hard to imagine a less centralized solution powered by solar or wind. https://www.iaea.org/topics/non-electric-applications/nuclea...

Oh the typical techie solution to environmental problems. We can solve this with tech! Wait until the aquifers under North America run dry. That's where most irrigation pump up their ground water from. A few dry rivers and smaller lakes are nothing compared to what's going to happen. Forget your desalination plants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aquifers_in_the_United... And it's entirely predictable. In fact…

Look, I think I agree with you that aquifers running dry is a very serious problem. However, I don’t understand why you believe desalination would not alleviate California’s problems with water. If California could be convinced to build enough nuclear desalination capacity for all present and future water needs then the problem is solved, no? There are trade offs such as environmental impact and cost. There are obstacles to implementation such as fear of nuclear power. If that’s your concern then please clarify.

(I haven’t watched that episode of the show. Does he go over this?)

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#72

Post by javajosh » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 7:46 PM UTC

beambot wrote: post #28

Quick Google stats: There are 13M households in California. Average household consumes 0.5-1.0 acre-feet of water per year. It costs $419 per acre-foot for desalination. California has a discretionary budget surplus of $49B. Thus: It would cost $2.7B-$5.4B per year to provide desalination-based water to all Californians. With the current budget surplus, we could provide 100% of California's living water needs for 10-…

That seems wasteful. How about a biotech startup that merges fish DNA with human DNA that gives humans the ability to consume saltwater directly. As an added bonus we can give people gills aka built-in SCUBA equipment.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#73

Post by tshaddox » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 7:46 PM UTC

dudus wrote: post #46

beambot wrote: post #28

Quick Google stats: There are 13M households in California. Average household consumes 0.5-1.0 acre-feet of water per year. It costs $419 per acre-foot for desalination. California has a discretionary budget surplus of $49B. Thus: It would cost $2.7B-$5.4B per year to provide desalination-based water to all Californians. With the current budget surplus, we could provide 100% of California's living water needs for 10-…

You have to budget in the water for the almond fields as well.

You'd think the almond farmers would be the ones to do that.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#74

Post by noah_buddy » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 7:46 PM UTC

chriscjcj wrote: post #35

In this California native and resident's opinion, California's "social fabric" has been deteriorating for a long, long time. Just add this to a long list of problems this state is completely incapable of mitigating.

I grew up in California and I’ve seen just about everything from my youth turn over in the last ten years from tech transplants and TikTok stars. My old neighborhood is now majority yuppies in condos. Money is a destructive and constructive force, California has made the deal with the devil.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#75

Post by surfpel » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 7:46 PM UTC

wildmanx wrote: post #20

burlesona wrote: post #6

California is next to the ocean, so if we really wanted to secure the water supply we have technological answers available. Nuclear desalination has been used at scale across the globe for decades, and it's not hard to imagine a less centralized solution powered by solar or wind. https://www.iaea.org/topics/non-electric-applications/nuclea...

Oh the typical techie solution to environmental problems. We can solve this with tech! Wait until the aquifers under North America run dry. That's where most irrigation pump up their ground water from. A few dry rivers and smaller lakes are nothing compared to what's going to happen. Forget your desalination plants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aquifers_in_the_United... And it's entirely predictable. In fact…

What are you even arguing? People posting here need to made less ambiguous, seething comments and stop assuming that people reading already know what they’re arguing.

- The poster above mentions desalination and says tech provides a solution.

- You make some vague point about tech people depending too much on tech, but without actually discussing the point and why.

- Then you go on to talk about the current problem, which the commenter above proposed a solution to, but making it sound as though you’re disagreeing with them.

So what are you even saying??

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#76

Post by javajosh » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 7:46 PM UTC

odiroot wrote: post #61

beambot wrote: post #28

Quick Google stats: There are 13M households in California. Average household consumes 0.5-1.0 acre-feet of water per year. It costs $419 per acre-foot for desalination. California has a discretionary budget surplus of $49B. Thus: It would cost $2.7B-$5.4B per year to provide desalination-based water to all Californians. With the current budget surplus, we could provide 100% of California's living water needs for 10-…

> acre-feet Being European, that's the weirdest unit of volume, I've ever seen.

Being American, same.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#77

Post by pvaldes » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 7:47 PM UTC

thghtihadanacct wrote: post #2

Aridification? I thought the place started out as a desert.

California has incredible fog forests also, home of the second tallest tree species registered in the planet. A desert would not have evolved giant slugs and arboreal salamanders.

It was a much more humid place in the past, probably.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#78

Post by Gibbon1 » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 7:47 PM UTC

bragr wrote: post #21

Victerius wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state needs to start overruling the local NIMBYs and build the desal plants the rest of the state needs. And the regulators need to chill out: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/california-regulator-reject...

It's not really the NIMBYs, it's the Coastal Commission which has a singular mission to protect the coasts no matter the larger big picture issues that keeps killing desal plants. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Coastal_Commissio...

My thought about that is the coastal commission needs to think hard because decisions like that are likely to result in their power being curtailed.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#79

Post by hamandcheese » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 7:48 PM UTC

M0r13n wrote: post #38

I am curios how much the excess consumption of water influences the low water levels. I do not get the feeling that the inhabitants of California are particularly saving any water. I guess that there is big potential to save water.

If by inhabitants you mean ordinary residents, well, the vast majority of all water used is used for agriculture.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#80

Post by wildmanx » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 7:48 PM UTC

not-my-account wrote: post #34

wildmanx wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh the typical techie solution to environmental problems. We can solve this with tech! Wait until the aquifers under North America run dry. That's where most irrigation pump up their ground water from. A few dry rivers and smaller lakes are nothing compared to what's going to happen. Forget your desalination plants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aquifers_in_the_United... And it's entirely predictable. In fact…

Well, what are the alternatives? In reality, we will need a plurality of solutions, coming from tech and policy. Also, this is a website that has a glut of techies, so expect tech-based solutions to be suggested!

> Well, what are the alternatives?

The same as with any resource that you are overusing: Use less.

You don't need golf courses in the middle of the desert. You don't need broken water access rights regulation that encourages wasting water. You can reduce water use in agriculture to a tiny fraction if you'd start viewing water as a precious resource and do this smarter. There is a lot you can do that's different from "let's keep wasting this resource, we can throw tech at it, ignore the consequences!"