Give up GitHub: The time has come • Hacker News Board

Re: Give up GitHub: The time has come

#211

Post by mmis1000 » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 6:20 PM UTC

NicoJuicy wrote: post #179

josephcsible wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reasons that Windows is awful have nothing to do with code quality. Windows is awful because of intentional choices Microsoft made (e.g., bloatware that gets reinstalled with every update, mandatory Microsoft accounts, and mandatory telemetry).

Support for legacy features is always #1, code-wise

The default of windows already do compatibility in some crazy way. And the compatibility mode lies to the program about system version or even fake old bugs so program relies on bug will run. And I'd imagine. To make this work, ms would need tons of most shitty code you'd imagine in the source o fake those behaviors.

Re: Give up GitHub: The time has come

#212

Post by longrod » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 6:20 PM UTC

I find it very strange that the same HN crowd that loves open source and wouldn't touch anything proprietary with a 10 foot pole has so many reservations against moving off of GitHub. I am not generalizing here, just surprised. According to what I have seen in my short experience, HN should have ditched GitHub long since.

Anyway...

I have always been curious as to why the largest hosting for OSS isn't open source itself. Maybe I am not intelligent enough to realize the reasoning behind this. Imagine if git wasn't open source! That's like an OS that only runs open source software but isn't open source itself. It just doesn't make sense for people to trust such an obviously flawed service...and yet they do.

And if that wasn't enough when GitHub got acquired by Microsoft very few people thought it amiss. Indeed, even now a lot of people are happy that Microsoft is running their digital homes. I think if GitHub was measured on the FOSS scale it would fall short on every measure.

Co-pilot isn't even that big of a deal. That's just the icing on the top. GitHub is untrustworthy top-to-bottom even before there was Co-pilot.

But I suppose convenience always trumps openness and freedom. It's especially sad because the whole point behind FOSS was this. Is the whole FOSS idea getting old?

The worst thing is that GitHub has monopolized the open source world. We can't even think of moving off of GitHub because of what we'll lose. But how about we do this:

We create a dummy repo on GitHub for our project that has all the fancy README, releases, issues, actions etc. but we keep the actual code out of GitHub on an open source service. Would that work? Is that feasible?

Basically, we use GitHub's wide adoption for what it's meant to be used: to market/share your project but keep the source code on a separate platform. This would create a new host of problems but I think it can actually work.

Re: Give up GitHub: The time has come

#213

Post by corrral » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 6:20 PM UTC

prepend wrote: post #56

BeetleB wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 years ago, while interviewing internally, I asked the team what VC they use. It was Team Foundation's proprietary VC (and not a DVCS). I mentioned to them that even MS recommends Git for Team Foundation's usage. "Well of course, MS invented Git!" Wrong on so many levels: 1. Conflating Github with Git. 2. They bought it, not invented/founded it. 3. Most importantly, MS's recommendation to use Git for TF existed long…

> refusal to use Git[1] due to its complexity I kind of like this friction. If a software developer finds git too complex, that’s an important signal that I should minimize my exposure to them. I’d never work in a team that dumb, and I wouldn’t want any dependencies on their code. Of course there are other reasons not to use git, but complexity is not one.

If this attitude is common, maybe it's why our tools are so consistently half-broken garbage.

You'd think developers could at least make the stuff they have to use decent. But no.

Re: Give up GitHub: The time has come

#214

Post by rglullis » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 6:21 PM UTC

seadan83 wrote: post #176

As a leader of a FOSS project that is on github, and migrated off of sourceforge because SVN and email patches were not scaling - I'm a bit confused by this article. Co-pilot has issues, ergo github is going the way of sourceforge, and so now we must abandon github? Do I have that reasoning correct? We need to: - migrate the bug queue - have all links in commit history break - application integration with githib for…

Forget Copilot for a second. Do you think it is healthy for the industry to be so dependent on one single service provider, and a closed one on top of that?

Re: Give up GitHub: The time has come

#215

Post by alexklarjr » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 6:21 PM UTC

codefreeordie wrote: post #164

ipaddr wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite answer is: if you included Microsoft source code the quality of suggestions drops below viable product.

This is a funny and flippant answer, but is also nonsense.

I called it microsoft DNA. The way they do stuff is inhuman alien logic without any compassion or remorse (like all 10k+ their windows apis, or dontnet, or way they add features and handle support ).

Re: Give up GitHub: The time has come

#216

Post by _ph_ » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 6:21 PM UTC

ssully wrote: post #182

brundolf wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say this as a senior dev with 8+ years of experience working with git: git is nightmarishly complex. Highly stateful, insanely large CLI surface, huge amounts of terminology/concepts relative to the complexity of what you're actually trying to do with it. I've learned to navigate its waters over the years, fully appreciate the difference between git and GitHub, etc etc, and I don't blame anybody for being scared aw…

As a whole, you are absolutely correct. But 99% of your daily interactions with Git come down to a handful of commands. Hell, print out a cheat sheet and tape it to your desk for the first few months of using it and you will be more than fine.

Until you make the slightest mistake and your work area gets into a state not covered by the cheat sheet. But of course, the standard recommendation seems to be just to remove the work area and check it out again :p

Re: Give up GitHub: The time has come

#217

Post by pragmatic » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 6:22 PM UTC

josephcsible wrote: post #173

ipaddr wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite answer is: if you included Microsoft source code the quality of suggestions drops below viable product.

The reasons that Windows is awful have nothing to do with code quality. Windows is awful because of intentional choices Microsoft made (e.g., bloatware that gets reinstalled with every update, mandatory Microsoft accounts, and mandatory telemetry).

In what way is Windows “awful”?

I can think of annoyances but awful? Come on.

Re: Give up GitHub: The time has come

#218

Post by alexklarjr » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 6:22 PM UTC

omegalulw wrote: post #165

ipaddr wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite answer is: if you included Microsoft source code the quality of suggestions drops below viable product.

Do you have any evidence for this?

I don’t have windows 10 or 11, sorry.

Re: Give up GitHub: The time has come

#219

Post by TheRealPomax » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 6:24 PM UTC

inetknght wrote: post #150

i_like_apis wrote: post #126

I disagree with all of their reasons for disliking GitHub. * They make money from Co-Pilot? Great! * They sell software to ICE? Good. Why wouldn’t they? I’m not interested in anti-immigration-enforcement politics. * They’re a closed-source for-profit company? Great! That’s why their product is high quality.

> They make money from Co-Pilot? Great! OK let me take your projects and make money from them and not give you anything in return, not even credit. > They sell software to ICE? Good. Why wouldn’t they? I’m not interested in anti-immigration-enforcement politics. ICE policies aside, you should be interested in immigration politics because they're important to people and businesses. Apathy is a bad thing here. > They’r…

You mean two of the most successful pieces of commercial software in the history of modern computing? Because as easy as it is to pretend they're terrible: to millions of users and orgs, they simply aren't.

Re: Give up GitHub: The time has come

#220

Post by mecsred » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 6:25 PM UTC

MacsHeadroom wrote: post #171

ryanmcbride wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I had to learn Assembly in college. We also had to physically print out our C++ code and turn it in to the professor. Did it make me a better programmer? Maybe but to this day I still haven't had to use it. Most of my practical skills I picked up on the job. P.S. I've seen the professor grading the printed out programs and he'd do it by flipping to the last page which was supposed to have the result output, and…

My C class had weekly written programming tests. Not multiple choice tests. We had to write a program by hand and hope to god it would compile without any errors. Horrible way to teach C imho.

Same here, only if you wrote in pencil, you were not allowed to appeal grading. So you had to write C from memory _in pen only_ while learning the language. There were students who pointed out the grading was wrong on their code, the TA and professor agreed, and the mark was not changed. Had to take it to the dean, don't think I learned if it was ever fixed. It wasn't even a CS degree...