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Why I’m Cryptophobic

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Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#231

Post by throwaway413 »

tuesdayrain wrote: post #190
throwaway413 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is well said, I’m gonna borrow that - “crypto is like a 0 calorie apple.” This matters. Even gold, at least I can wear it and display my wealth. You can’t even display your crypto wealth like that. It is entirely lacking in any “real” value. Idea: luxury tshirt made out of a $5 white tee with a wallet QR code slapped on the front showing off the balance of the shirt. Or a ring. Crypto fine jewelry.

>Even gold, at least I can wear it and display my wealth. You can’t even display your crypto wealth like that I'd feel much safer displaying large sums of wealth online by posting a wallet than by wearing luxury goods in public.

Oh totally agree - someone can just pull a necklace right off you. I was just surfacing the point that at least gold does has some value on its own as a status symbol - there is a market for jewelry outside of gold as a transfer protocol. An bitcoin wallet without ability to transfer it is just some used up memory, it doesn’t have any value on its own. See coins going to 0 when exchanges close their doors. All the banks in the world could close and people would still find shiny rocks attractive and admirable. We have for thousands of years.

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#233

Post by mathattack »

mjburgess wrote: post #4

There needs to be some basic economics here.. Money has value because of the value of the economic transactions in which its conducted. Government-backed currencies are forced to have value in the sense they force people to use it for their taxes. The US, additionally, forces the world to use it for oil trades. Value is in those economic transactions. A currency is just a "liquifying" of that value, to make it easier…

I will play the devils advocate here. What if it’s value is more like a store of value (gold) rather than a currency. We can’t pay all of our bills in gold, but it’s a store of value you can buy in and out of.

I don’t have a horse in the race, just trying to understand.

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#234

Post by MacsHeadroom »

mattnewton wrote: post #229
benreesman wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone can invent quasi-financial terms to make grandiose claims. The beauty of the market is that loudmouths don’t participate in the market for long. I’ll sell an American-style options contract to someone who thinks BTC is going anywhere near there at Black-Scholes -75. And I’ll have no trouble financing it. You want the other side?

Not the person you are responding to, but is there somewhere reputable offering these kinds of contracts to no-name retail investors like myself? I would absolutely load up on something like 12,000 - 15,000 USD bitcoin puts depending on the time decay people are offering and how certain I could be that they would actually let me exercise them, and not freeze trading or even go belly up during the crash. I am somewhat…

There are dozens of dApps where anyone with an internet connection and money can buy/sell puts and other options on BTC anonymously.

They have full openly auditable reserves and all their code is open source and visible on their respective smartchains. Wanting an institution to provide a sub-par solution for this is a cop-out. Put up or shut-up.

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#235

Post by jjoonathan »

hwbehrens wrote: post #199
jjoonathan wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's just it: bad choices in the social layer become nearly irrevocable once a self-interested, powerful elite emerges. The bad choices put them on top and they will do anything to stay there.

> But that's just it: bad choices in the social layer become nearly irrevocable once a self-interested, powerful elite emerges. The bad choices put them on top and they will do anything to stay there. I would argue that this trait is not unique to blockchain systems -- in fact, if you presented this argument without context, I doubt many readers would put blockchain in the top 5 potential referents. See: economic sys…

Agreed 100%.

Satoshi thought bailouts were the problem, but concentrated power was the problem. The libertarian "cure" of stronger property rights only exacerbates power concentration because concentrated power is in the best position to exploit stronger property rights. Cue exponential growth.

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#236

Post by engmgrmgr »

smoldesu wrote: post #224
dont__panic wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also seems like those "layers on top of BTC" erode one of the only aspects of blockchain that has appeal for me -- the full transparency of the system, such that you can see every exchange of BTC on the network. The minute you offload any of that to other systems, you're essentially creating dark pools and money laundering opportunities because of differential oversight.

If there's one thing that people should correctly point out as scams in the world of crypto, it should be L2 chains. Every single one of them is a ploy to enrich their creator, full-stop. I don't even know what kind of pipe dream they sell to their investors to get capital. It's particularly funny, because I remember Justin Sun trying to scam people like this years before cryptocurrency had really taken off. Back the…

That’s a rather myopic view.

You could look at L2s as a sort of credit card system, and from a systems and technology POV there’s nothing inherently “scammy” about it. For web3 applications of any meaningful large scale, L2 solutions are necessary.

For better or worse, the L2 developer platforms that I assume you’re referring to are essentially low-code solutions to abstract away the actual systems software engineering aspect of web3 development. Are the low-code SaaS companies overvalued or “scammy”? I’m not suggesting they are or are not.

Well-staffed tech companies building web3 applications often build their own implicit L2 solutions because it’s just how you connect things in a distributed system with modern L1 blockchain constraints.

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#237

Post by MacsHeadroom »

throwaway413 wrote: post #162
chaosbolt wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well an apple has value because it's food, but if today people are willing to pay 1 banana for it and tomorrow they're willing to pay 2 bananas for it, the apple still has the same value it did yesterday because the calories in it haven't changed, but you can actually obtain twice the calories you could've obtained yesterday by taking the banana (2 bananas today), so its value today has doubled. Bitcoin is a 0 calori…

This is well said, I’m gonna borrow that - “crypto is like a 0 calorie apple.” This matters. Even gold, at least I can wear it and display my wealth. You can’t even display your crypto wealth like that. It is entirely lacking in any “real” value. Idea: luxury tshirt made out of a $5 white tee with a wallet QR code slapped on the front showing off the balance of the shirt. Or a ring. Crypto fine jewelry.

Real value doesn't matter. "Marginal" value is what matters. Breathable air and drinkable water have the greatest real value of anything, but their marginal values are zero and near zero respectively for a number of reasons (chiefly scarcity).

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#238

Post by TrapLord_Rhodo »

The reason why me and my friends use crypto is simple.

In the current financial system i give you ALL of my info and hope you don't rob me blind.

In crypto i sent you money.

Small distinction, but one that will be increasingly more important as we modernize.

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#239

Post by globalreset »

anonporridge wrote: post #79
peyton wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don’t buy the old taxes-make-the-money-work chestnut. Far too many counterexamples.

Taxes aren't why money generally works (money emerges naturally in human societies), but taxes are what makes national currencies work. If you don't pay your taxes, you don't get to participate in the local economy for very long. Men with guns will eventually come to your home and take your stuff and/or take your freedom. You can't even do direct barter without cash without incurring a tax obligation in the US, https…

No post body was provided.

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#240

Post by tgarv »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #238

The reason why me and my friends use crypto is simple. In the current financial system i give you ALL of my info and hope you don't rob me blind. In crypto i sent you money. Small distinction, but one that will be increasingly more important as we modernize.

Do you think that benefit outweighs the wild variance in valuation of most cryptocurrencies? I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm genuinely curious.
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