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Why I’m Cryptophobic

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Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#191

Post by XorNot »

hans1729 wrote: post #112
gumby wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> economies can crash. Gold can not… A glance at the gold prices and economies of the 19th century show that in fact the gold price certainly can crash due to gold strikes. In addition, the stock of the planet’s gold is negligible compared to the global economy (the hard to quantify set of transactions that people do with each other) so by definition can only operate at the margins. If the world crashes so far that g…

The exchange rate for gold (i.e. the interface of an economy with the material) can crash, not gold itself, thus the inherent value. That was my point, sorry if that wasn't coming across. >If the world crashes so far that gold is a meaningful proportion, will there be much to transact at all? This is where I start speculating, but couldn't we just create an arbitrary new currency and tie it to gold?

> The exchange rate for gold (i.e. the interface of an economy with the material) can crash, not gold itself, thus the inherent value.

What do you think this means? Because gold is only worth what you can trade it for - the exchange rate.

It has no "inherent value" - you don't eat gold.

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#192

Post by globalreset »

mjburgess wrote: post #4

There needs to be some basic economics here.. Money has value because of the value of the economic transactions in which its conducted. Government-backed currencies are forced to have value in the sense they force people to use it for their taxes. The US, additionally, forces the world to use it for oil trades. Value is in those economic transactions. A currency is just a "liquifying" of that value, to make it easier…

No post body was provided.

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#193

Post by babypuncher »

mjburgess wrote: post #4

There needs to be some basic economics here.. Money has value because of the value of the economic transactions in which its conducted. Government-backed currencies are forced to have value in the sense they force people to use it for their taxes. The US, additionally, forces the world to use it for oil trades. Value is in those economic transactions. A currency is just a "liquifying" of that value, to make it easier…

Just using BTC to replace all of McDonald's daily debit/credit card transactions would completely destroy the system. I don't know why people think they are refuting your argument by pointing out low-volume examples like porn sites.

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#194

Post by ETH_start »

throwaway413 wrote: post #139
ETH_start wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The traditional financial system and the political system it rests on are too unstable. Witness Moscow commuters not being able to enter their metro as Apple Pay cuts them off. Witness the AML surveillance regime shutting out entire countries: https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2020/10/23/money-reimagined-...

If a geopolitical climate is too volatile for fiat to provide value, what good is it that crypto can isolate its stability (it can’t) if the humans who would use it have bigger problems than how to pay with money they already have in some form? Supply chains, physical force/warfare, climate, etc. If fiat is breaking down, there are surely bigger problems at play. How does solving the ability to transfer money solve t…

>>Per your example, ok Apple Pay got cut off. Is the transit system going to support crypto? Will they be able to run their business and make that transition with regulators?

That's the big question. But assuming for a moment that crypto can act as a substitute for traditional centralized payment systems, then it has significant advantages in some contexts over those systems.

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#195

Post by melony »

yellowapple wrote: post #146
mikeyouse wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true for PHub -- Just went to confirm and the first option is bank transfer, the second is crypto. What percentage of people who pay for PHub do you think even own crypto? My guess would be <1%.

There's no way in any number of Hells that I'd trust PornHub with my banking info.

I would trust them a lot more than your average consumer fintech. They have been around for a long time and their engineering is nothing to be sniffed at.

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#196

Post by melony »

globalreset wrote: post #192
mjburgess wrote: post #4

There needs to be some basic economics here.. Money has value because of the value of the economic transactions in which its conducted. Government-backed currencies are forced to have value in the sense they force people to use it for their taxes. The US, additionally, forces the world to use it for oil trades. Value is in those economic transactions. A currency is just a "liquifying" of that value, to make it easier…

Quoted post unavailable.

You are describing fractional reserve banking. Banking licenses have their authority ultimately derived from the state's monopoly on violence.

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#197

Post by derac »

daniel-cussen wrote: post #138
aabhay wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gold is the world's best physical commodity to use as a store of value -- it doesn't degrade or tarnish, is easily molded into coins or other symbols, melts easily, has a highly fixed supply (synthesizing it is prohibitively expensive), and (now) increasingly is not tied to an industrial output so can weather GDP fluctuations. So in a battle Royale of all commodities, gold wins. That said, all commodities are affecte…

Gold and bitcoin are practically identical.

Good has a long history of use as a store of value. Bitcoin has a few years of being valuable. So did beanie babies. Noone knows if Bitcoin will be worth 0 or 100,000 in 5 years.

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#198

Post by jesushax »

tuesdayrain wrote: post #190
throwaway413 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is well said, I’m gonna borrow that - “crypto is like a 0 calorie apple.” This matters. Even gold, at least I can wear it and display my wealth. You can’t even display your crypto wealth like that. It is entirely lacking in any “real” value. Idea: luxury tshirt made out of a $5 white tee with a wallet QR code slapped on the front showing off the balance of the shirt. Or a ring. Crypto fine jewelry.

>Even gold, at least I can wear it and display my wealth. You can’t even display your crypto wealth like that I'd feel much safer displaying large sums of wealth online by posting a wallet than by wearing luxury goods in public.

Totally agree. For example, I have 10,000 SOL (Solana tokens) that I regularly screenshot and show off. It's all on devnet, though, so it's free and worthless.

It's the web3 version - in web 2 I'd be instagramming my knockoff Rolex I bought in Tijuana

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#199

Post by hwbehrens »

jjoonathan wrote: post #123
syzygyhack wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the same irrevocability is now what makes me deeply concerned. Strange hang-up to have. Irrevocability is not a trait that is fundamental to blockchain applications. If the application is smart-contract based, irrevocability is a choice at the source code level. Just because one transaction in a block is irrevocable doesn't mean that another transaction in a future block can't undo whatever arbitrary state chan…

But that's just it: bad choices in the social layer become nearly irrevocable once a self-interested, powerful elite emerges. The bad choices put them on top and they will do anything to stay there.

> But that's just it: bad choices in the social layer become nearly irrevocable once a self-interested, powerful elite emerges. The bad choices put them on top and they will do anything to stay there.

I would argue that this trait is not unique to blockchain systems -- in fact, if you presented this argument without context, I doubt many readers would put blockchain in the top 5 potential referents. See: economic systems, political power struggles, social structures, etc.

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#200

Post by rafaelero »

So much drama. It all comes down to: do you want to use a currency whose rules are immutable and its value is decided by the market or do you want a government backed currency that can change its monetary policy according to its discretion? Everything else is just words.
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