App School Live

Just in case you're wondering whether Urbit is worth looking into, let me save you the trouble: no. Just, no. Urbit is a cult. All of its artifacts are deliberately obfuscated in order to instill a sense of community into those who climb the learning curve. It has no actual technical merit whatsoever.

Here is a clue:

> We’re running a cohort class of App School to teach you how to terraform Mars.

No, you are not going to terraform Mars by writing apps. No one is going to terraform Mars. Terraforming Mars is a pipe dream. We humans can't even get our act together enough to stop ourselves from de-terraforming earth. [UPDATE: turns out they are not actually talking about teraforming Mars. But the invention of a private language to identify the in-group is one the hallmarks of a cult.]

Sorry if this is rant-y but I've been watching Urbit since its inception and I am absolutely dismayed at how many otherwise smart people are wasting their time on it.

Re: App School Live

#5

Post by danpalmer » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 3:19 PM UTC

> We’re running a cohort class of App School to teach you how to terraform Mars

Why is the Urbit project completely unable to produce anything approachable, set any practical goals, or explain anything in terms of existing approaches?

It seems like an extreme level of hubris to think that Urbit is so far beyond the current level of technology that everything must be started from scratch. I've bounced off Urbit because of the tech and documentation a number of times now, and I would like to think I'm capable of understanding and appreciating the need for this sort of thing.

Re: App School Live

#6

Post by NealEDavis » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 3:33 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #4

Just in case you're wondering whether Urbit is worth looking into, let me save you the trouble: no. Just, no. Urbit is a cult. All of its artifacts are deliberately obfuscated in order to instill a sense of community into those who climb the learning curve. It has no actual technical merit whatsoever. Here is a clue: > We’re running a cohort class of App School to teach you how to terraform Mars. No, you are not goin…

It's a pun on a longstanding joke of Urbit as Martian technology; it has nothing to do with the planet Mars.

Re: App School Live

#7

Post by gonehome » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 3:36 PM UTC

For those that haven’t checked it out the ideas behind urbit are really interesting, it’s the first attempt I’ve seen to get us out of the local maximum of centralized web services we’re trapped in where success is among the potential outcomes (most attempts are destined to fail because they don’t tackle the underlying issues from first principles). I think it could really work and I’m convinced urbit or something like it eventually will - the ideas are correct.

Jack Dorsey’s “web5”, Dan Romero’s Farcaster all touch on a lot of these concepts - people are starting to come around to the same conclusions (which is good!) - urbit had just taken a boil the ocean approach on a bet that we need to rethink the stack from first principles so we can control certain assumptions to reduce complexity and make some of the problems in modern computing easier to handle.

Finding it really felt like the first time I started playing with Linux for me. It revived a lot of the dreams of the 90s web and what it could be, people being able to run their own nodes in a way that could actually work.

To do that you have to solve the identity problem, you have to reduce the complexity of running the system, and you have to have the internet front and center when building the OS.

The dream of a truly decentralized web from the 90s failed and it failed for reasons that make sense given the constraints of the technology we use. I think urbit is a way out.

An old blog post (from 2010!) that really digs into the details: https://moronlab.blogspot.com/2010/01/urbit-functional-progr...

Re: App School Live

#8

Post by lisper » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 3:38 PM UTC

NealEDavis wrote: post #6

lisper wrote: post #4

Just in case you're wondering whether Urbit is worth looking into, let me save you the trouble: no. Just, no. Urbit is a cult. All of its artifacts are deliberately obfuscated in order to instill a sense of community into those who climb the learning curve. It has no actual technical merit whatsoever. Here is a clue: > We’re running a cohort class of App School to teach you how to terraform Mars. No, you are not goin…

It's a pun on a longstanding joke of Urbit as Martian technology; it has nothing to do with the planet Mars.

OK, but that doesn't actually refute my central point, that Urbit is a cult. One of the hallmarks of cults is that they invent a private language that helps identify the in-group. Obviously I am not part of the in-group.

Scientology is famous for this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_terminology

Re: App School Live

#9

Post by cowtools » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 3:39 PM UTC

NealEDavis wrote: post #6

lisper wrote: post #4

Just in case you're wondering whether Urbit is worth looking into, let me save you the trouble: no. Just, no. Urbit is a cult. All of its artifacts are deliberately obfuscated in order to instill a sense of community into those who climb the learning curve. It has no actual technical merit whatsoever. Here is a clue: > We’re running a cohort class of App School to teach you how to terraform Mars. No, you are not goin…

It's a pun on a longstanding joke of Urbit as Martian technology; it has nothing to do with the planet Mars.

I suppose so. It still makes me cringe. It reminds me of all those scammy crypto projects that love to associate themselves with space for the perceived "cool factor". Like that superbowl commercial

Re: App School Live

#10

Post by julianeon » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 3:40 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #4

Just in case you're wondering whether Urbit is worth looking into, let me save you the trouble: no. Just, no. Urbit is a cult. All of its artifacts are deliberately obfuscated in order to instill a sense of community into those who climb the learning curve. It has no actual technical merit whatsoever. Here is a clue: > We’re running a cohort class of App School to teach you how to terraform Mars. No, you are not goin…

Thanks for your input. I was looking for a comment from someone who had tried it out and reached a verdict.

To people who disagree and think it’s useful: I’m willing to listen - in fact I came here looking for your comments.

Please post a link to a useful service of app that Urbit provides now, that’s what many of us are waiting to see.