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Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

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171–180 of 203 posts

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#171
post #11

He said BTC was the only cryptocurrency he was comfortable saying was a commodity, while many were securities it didn't address explicitly what all others were “That’s the only one I’m going to say because I’m not going to talk about any one of these tokens” https://twitter.com/SBF_FTX/status/1541565079992369155?s=20&...

What’s the difference between a security and a commodity? And what does this distinction change for the SEC?

Difference is scarcity

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#172
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be the same if holding a token from a PoS system cost money. Since it doesn't, then it is definitely not the same thing.

Of course it costs money, holding a token has an opportunity cost.

The opportunity cost of not investing is in a different ballpark from spending that money on machines and electricity.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under US law (Howey test) a security is something that 1. You invest money in 2. Along with others 3. With the expectation of profit 4. Derived from the efforts of others ETA: (the others in #2 need not be the same others in #4)

Under this definition, surely all cryptocurrencies fail test #4. Everyone is going to get rich and nobody is going to have to put in any effort, just HODL. WAGMI! To the moon!

Most cryptocurrency promotors claim that they have this brilliant team and a great roadmap and in the future all the activity they're going to promote is what will make the token worth something, etc. Which is actually what does make them a security.

The claim in the article is that Bitcoin is mostly not like that. There's a protocol and a bunch of users, but there's no one who's leading the enterprise and causing the value to do something. Not sure I buy that claim, but it's not totally crazy.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#174
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far at least, this is not the worst bear market ever in crypto. ETH right now is down about 80%, but in 2018 it dropped 94%.

It's the biggest financial impact. Last time around, it wasn't that big a financial market segment.

Curious, do you think this makes a fast recovery less likely? Or more?

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#175
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. If one of the clients interpreted a part of the spec in a different way, event if they are right, they would have change it to follow an officially approved code because that's the consensus. There are examples like https://github.com/openethereum/parity-ethereum/blob/55c90d4...

"Officially approved" specs are talked about amongst the devs in all client teams on the Ethereum calls, with proposals having to go through the EIP process, which are then implemented by each team. Also, Parity Open Ethereum is deprecated.

Right, maybe it's less visible now and Parity is not in use anymore. But it doesn't change the fact and the link proves that it indeed happens. I guess it's a hard truth nobody wants to talk about.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#176
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the difference between a security and a commodity? And what does this distinction change for the SEC?

> What’s the difference between a security and a commodity? Securities: Stocks and Bonds Commodities: Metals, Grains, and Oil A commodity's defining feature is its interchangeability. One unit is essentially the same as another unit. To an orange juice company oranges are oranges, to an apple juice company apples are apples, and to an oil refinery one barrel of oil is a lot like any other barrel of oil. Commodities m…

One major difference is jurisdiction: SEC vs CFTC

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#177
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money buys you voting rights in some proof-of-stake implementations that give governance rights to stakers. Ethereum's doesn't do that. Its stakers have no more governance rights than miners.

Except Ethereum is planning to eliminate miners and move to proof of stake.

They were talking specifically about the Proof of Stake model that Ethereum is working on moving to. They were saying that, while some proof of stake chains may use stake for governance, that the protocol for proof of stake intended for use in Ethereum, does not grant any governance roles.

Just like, block proposal?

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actively used alternative implementations: https://github.com/btcsuite/btcd https://bitcoin-s.org/ https://bcoin.io/ https://bitcore.io/ https://bitcoindevkit.org/

None of these clients will likely ever compete with Bitcoin Core. https://coin.dance/nodes

They're clients, they interoperate.

It isn't a competition. Some are more suitable for certain use cases, and all those listed are actively in use with real funds on the mainnet network.

The site you linked is interesting, but it can only show public nodes.

Edit: not to mention that a single node can serve huge numbers of light clients, e.g. one of those public btcd instances could be serving hundreds of neutrino clients

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#180
Bitcoin is a tool first, and a commodity second. I never "hold" bitcoin, or if I do is for an extremely short while. I've used it plenty of times for almost a decade in this fashion:

1. Get paid in BTC for a service or a product (or buy BTC with offshore money) 2. Sell to someone for an agreed on price 3. Get cash/local currency/supplies/whatever

Two thoughts:

- Lower hype on bitcoin is a good thing for me, as it will bring less attention to it from goverments. I just need a critical mass of people there are enough buyers/sellers/miners.

- The two things that worry me are: governance of the project, and the fact that bitcoin mining traffic can be detected (somewhat like torrents). So, if govts want, they could force the ISPs to check for traffic that may indicate mining, raid, and eventually kill all mining operations (China probably will). Most likely, some countries will be more lax on that.

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