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Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

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151–160 of 203 posts

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#151

Bitcoin has less foundation- or team-based leadership that have plagued other crypto projects. This leadership (eg Ethereum foundation) gives crypto projects the air of legitimacy, but also the impression, as Hinman put it, that some managerial work and direction is expected, tipping the scale towards security. If the network becomes decentralized to the point where no one party has sway over its direction (even a go…

> Bitcoin has less foundation- or team-based leadership that have plagued other crypto projects.

It's designed that way, but it has been attempted before: under the guise of that name, no less. I just saw Charlie Schrem on a live stream a while ago, and he strikes me as the person who best represents those conmen. Many have falled by teh way side, others in to utter irrelevance, and then imbeciles like Bruce Fenton refuse to go away and still clings onto his 'foundation status' as though that gave him any legitimacy as he runs for office.

I'll just say this: Bitcoiners, especially early adopters, don't have any tolerance for these pseudo-thought leader BS, and nothing irks us more when someone tries to speak on behalf of the community. We vote with our hashing power and our nodes, nothing else matters. We may disagree about specific things, like LukeJRs refusal to let go of his smaller block idea, but the truth is this is a cohesive unit it that is bound by self-interest as much as is its about a central ethos: it's the most resilient community I've ever been a part of and I value it most because of it's refusal to be co-opted despite its MANY attempts, even by people who calling themselves a 'chief scientist' and was 2nd only to Satoshi--who I will remind you appealed to the community to not 'kick the hornet's nest' and then did exactly that in regards to using BTC to fund Wikileaks.

> even a good one eg the move to proof of stake

You lost all credibility here.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin solves the double-spending problem.

You forgot the last bit: "...without a central authority." There is no double-spending problem in traditional banking because it is not decentralized.

Perhaps you should read about fractional reserve banking. The same money can indeed be loaned out against ones will and reappear elsewhere in the economy in two different places at once.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A commodity must be fungible -- i.e. that would imply BTC and BCH/LTC were economically interchangeable. They aren't. Bitcoin's blockchain has a longer proof-of-work than BCH. Honest nodes will only mine the longest blockchain (per Satoshi). Therefore any blockchain shorter than Bitcoin's will ultimately collapse in the long term, making them unsuitable to be considered commodities.

Really? Is corn fungible with oil?

No?

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A commodity must be fungible -- i.e. that would imply BTC and BCH/LTC were economically interchangeable. They aren't. Bitcoin's blockchain has a longer proof-of-work than BCH. Honest nodes will only mine the longest blockchain (per Satoshi). Therefore any blockchain shorter than Bitcoin's will ultimately collapse in the long term, making them unsuitable to be considered commodities.

Can you try again using less hand-wavey logic? Every point you make doesn't seem to make much sense.

If you don't believe it or don't get it, I don't have the time to try to convince you, sorry.

Perhaps try some online learning resources: https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/15-s12-blockchain-and-money-fall...

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A commodity must be fungible -- i.e. that would imply BTC and BCH/LTC were economically interchangeable. They aren't. Bitcoin's blockchain has a longer proof-of-work than BCH. Honest nodes will only mine the longest blockchain (per Satoshi). Therefore any blockchain shorter than Bitcoin's will ultimately collapse in the long term, making them unsuitable to be considered commodities.

Being fungible means every BTC is the same other BTC and every BCH is the same as every other BCH, not that BCH is the same as BTC. Water and oil are both fungible commodities. No one would claim they're economically interchangeable with each other .

Exactly, so BTC and BCH would be considered different commodities. But BCH can never win provably in the long-term, so therefore would not be able to qualify as a functioning commodity.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#156
post #59

Bitcoin has less foundation- or team-based leadership that have plagued other crypto projects. This leadership (eg Ethereum foundation) gives crypto projects the air of legitimacy, but also the impression, as Hinman put it, that some managerial work and direction is expected, tipping the scale towards security. If the network becomes decentralized to the point where no one party has sway over its direction (even a go…

Bitcoin has a single popular client. There are people who work on that client. Ethereum has five execution clients, developed by independent teams, and another five proof-of-stake clients, also developed by independent teams, plus an open community of researchers where anyone can participate. The Ethereum Foundation funds some of this, but not all of it. If the various teams don't agree to do something, it won't get…

Actively used alternative implementations:

https://github.com/btcsuite/btcd

https://bitcoin-s.org/

https://bcoin.io/

https://bitcore.io/

https://bitcoindevkit.org/

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#157
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In PoW miners buy physical capital and electricity, in PoS miners buy digital tokens. It's exactly the same, except PoS is less detrimental to the environment.

It would be the same if holding a token from a PoS system cost money. Since it doesn't, then it is definitely not the same thing.

Of course it costs money, holding a token has an opportunity cost.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#158
post #11

He said BTC was the only cryptocurrency he was comfortable saying was a commodity, while many were securities it didn't address explicitly what all others were “That’s the only one I’m going to say because I’m not going to talk about any one of these tokens” https://twitter.com/SBF_FTX/status/1541565079992369155?s=20&...

What’s the difference between a security and a commodity? And what does this distinction change for the SEC?

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#159
post #11

He said BTC was the only cryptocurrency he was comfortable saying was a commodity, while many were securities it didn't address explicitly what all others were “That’s the only one I’m going to say because I’m not going to talk about any one of these tokens” https://twitter.com/SBF_FTX/status/1541565079992369155?s=20&...

What’s the difference between a security and a commodity? And what does this distinction change for the SEC?

The Howey Test

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#160

From the original Ethereum pre-sale blog post: https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/07/22/launching-the-ether-sal... > Ether is a product, NOT a security or investment offering. Ether is simply a token useful for paying transaction fees or building or purchasing decentralized application services on the Ethereum platform; it does not give you voting rights over anything, and we make no guarantees of its future value.

Ether's confusing though because the SEC has explicitly said in the past that "offers and sales of Ether are not securities transactions." https://www.sec.gov/news/speech/speech-hinman-061418

Gensler's comments today suggest the opposite will be true?

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