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Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

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Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#71

Post by kreetx »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #49
uncomputation wrote: post #16

Bitcoin has less foundation- or team-based leadership that have plagued other crypto projects. This leadership (eg Ethereum foundation) gives crypto projects the air of legitimacy, but also the impression, as Hinman put it, that some managerial work and direction is expected, tipping the scale towards security. If the network becomes decentralized to the point where no one party has sway over its direction (even a go…

If Ethereum can be changed from Proof of Work to Proof of Stake on a "whim", how is it not centralized in some capacity?

Define whim, and how does it relate to being centralized? I don't think there is anyone forcing the miners to keep another Ethereum classic running.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#72

Post by tboyd47 »

daniel-cussen wrote: post #27

I agree with this. I have said it's the only crypto worth participating in because it's the only crypto that originated for idealistic reasons. In that capacity it is similar to gold, which in the Golden Age (something everybody talked about in Antiquity and I decided to believe, but I've never encountered anybody else believing in) was openly swapped around as little inventions (you can make all kinds of shit with g…

That's a really interesting parallel with Greek history I've never heard before.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#73

Post by JumpCrisscross »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #22
gamblor956 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No lawyers familiar with how administrative agencies work agree with that assessment. And that is, importantly, not how rulemaking works at administrative agencies. EDIT: Administrative agency "rulemaking" is constrained by a fixed set of procedures that an agency must follow in order to "promulgate" a rule. First, they must publish a draft of the proposed rules, allow for several weeks or months of public comment, s…

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/crypto-trial-century-rip...

The closest this article comes to your claim is when it says the case “could settle the turf war between regulatory agencies like the Commodities Futures Trading Commission, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and the SEC, all vying for jurisdiction in the space” [1].

A Ripple win would apply to the facts and circumstances of Ripple and XRP, and isn’t expected by anyone informed to set a broad precedent constraining the SEC’s powers.

[1] https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/crypto-trial-century-rip...

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#74

Post by Alex3917 »

mistrial9 wrote: post #50
Alex3917 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this any different than something like GRIN? I'm not involved in either community, but at least superficially they certainly look similar.

GRIN does not move more than $1B USD per hour?

I meant in terms of not being a security, rather than being a commodity.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#75

Post by vkou »

xhkkffbf wrote: post #14
encoderer wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive me for being ignorant but can’t the congress expand SEC powers at any time by changing the law?

The saying in Washington is that no one is safe when Congress is in session. And that's pretty much true. Aside from some constitutionally guaranteed activities like petitioning for redress of grievances, they can pretty much legislate anything they can agree upon. (Assuming they can ever agree on anything.) For instance, the duly elected Democrats who control the House, Senate and White House like to point the finge…

The problem with legislature affirming your right to body autonomy is that the next legislature can take it away.

Rights need a stronger foundation than being a bi-annual political yo-yo.

Procedural and executive questions, on the other hand, are the kind of thing the legislature should either take a direct hand in through legislature, or delegate to the executive (When they do the latter, there is actually more public accountability than the former, thanks to the required public processes behind executive rule-making.)

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#76

Post by JumpCrisscross »

nathias wrote: post #69

Pretty idiotic that they can't make new categories for new tech and have to shoehorn it into the old.

> they can't make new categories for new tech and have to shoehorn it into the old

Nobody is doing that. For all the new techiness of crypto, its popular failure modes of pumps and dumps, rug pulls and promoters lying through their teeth is identical to the pre-Securities Act securities landscape. So for those narrow problems these proven solutions should work.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#77

Post by gamblor956 »

nathias wrote: post #69

Pretty idiotic that they can't make new categories for new tech and have to shoehorn it into the old.

The SEC cannot make new categories until and unless Congress passes a law either making new categories or authorizing the SEC to do so.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#78

Post by mirntyfirty »

DennisP wrote: post #67
mirntyfirty wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d claim that tax misrepresentation would likely lead to some jail time, particularly for those that don’t have the funds for legal representation. As far as I can tell, the prevailing point of Bitcoin is to make capital gains.

If crypto is a commodity, people still owe the same capital gains tax. The IRS has been giving tax guidance on crypto for years; any US person in crypto with half a brain has been following it.

Agreed. I was providing an example whereby a person could end up in jail from participating in crypto.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#79

Post by erdewit »

hnthrow1010 wrote: post #35
uncomputation wrote: post #16

Bitcoin has less foundation- or team-based leadership that have plagued other crypto projects. This leadership (eg Ethereum foundation) gives crypto projects the air of legitimacy, but also the impression, as Hinman put it, that some managerial work and direction is expected, tipping the scale towards security. If the network becomes decentralized to the point where no one party has sway over its direction (even a go…

The idea that Bitcoin has no leaders is a big lie that these regulators should be able to see through. You can take look at any of the well-known whales to see obvious evidence against that claim. They make the claim because it allows them to maintain plausible deniability while manipulating the market as much as they possibly can. I wouldn't trust anyone in finance who says they're not doing managerial work and dire…

What makes Bitcoin a commodity is that nobody can issue more Bitcoin, other then from mining, just like with physical commodities. The market can still be manipulated by the big players but that is besides the point. When more of an asset can be issued (created from thin air) then it is a security.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#80

Post by 0des »

DennisP wrote: post #59
uncomputation wrote: post #16

Bitcoin has less foundation- or team-based leadership that have plagued other crypto projects. This leadership (eg Ethereum foundation) gives crypto projects the air of legitimacy, but also the impression, as Hinman put it, that some managerial work and direction is expected, tipping the scale towards security. If the network becomes decentralized to the point where no one party has sway over its direction (even a go…

Bitcoin has a single popular client. There are people who work on that client. Ethereum has five execution clients, developed by independent teams, and another five proof-of-stake clients, also developed by independent teams, plus an open community of researchers where anyone can participate. The Ethereum Foundation funds some of this, but not all of it. If the various teams don't agree to do something, it won't get…

> Bitcoin has a single popular client.

False.

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