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Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

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11–20 of 203 posts

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#11
He said BTC was the only cryptocurrency he was comfortable saying was a commodity, while many were securities

it didn't address explicitly what all others were

“That’s the only one I’m going to say because I’m not going to talk about any one of these tokens”

https://twitter.com/SBF_FTX/status/1541565079992369155?s=20&...

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#12

The SEC can threaten, but they may have blown up their opportunity to regulate cryptocurrency. If they lose the Ripple vs SEC lawsuit (and, according to observers, it's not been going as well for the SEC as they would wish), they could permanently lose almost all ability to regulate cryptocurrency by their lack of timely action and because of one speech by an SEC official four years ago. The SEC is basically trying t…

Would you mind sharing more of your thoughts on what might play out if the SEC loses? And then also, if you don't mind, what would happen if the SEC wins?

If the SEC loses, unless Congress were to pass a law to grant more authority, the SEC would have almost no ability to regulate cryptocurrency as they would have no ability to define cryptocurrency as a form of "security" (which is the purview they are granted legal authority over, even in their name, the Securities and Exchange Commission).

If the SEC wins, they can define some cryptocurrencies as "securities" which then automatically becomes part of their regulatory authority.

This is why they are being careful to say only Bitcoin isn't a security now. That speech in 2018, centerpiece of the lawsuit, said Ethereum also was not a security. If that speech is found a legally binding statement, it's really hard to find anything smart-contract-powered from Ethereum to XRP as a security.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#13
The SEC and Wallstreet have been locked in an eternal cat and mouse game for decades. And given that Wallstreet has the money and hence the talent and options it tends to be a step ahead of the SEC.

I expect this will be even more true for crypto. While I believe that some regulation might be a good thing as it makes crypto safer for the wider public I am genuinely doubtful that the SEC has the capabilities or the right incentives to be that regulator.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#14

The SEC can threaten, but they may have blown up their opportunity to regulate cryptocurrency. If they lose the Ripple vs SEC lawsuit (and, according to observers, it's not been going as well for the SEC as they would wish), they could permanently lose almost all ability to regulate cryptocurrency by their lack of timely action and because of one speech by an SEC official four years ago. The SEC is basically trying t…

Forgive me for being ignorant but can’t the congress expand SEC powers at any time by changing the law?

The saying in Washington is that no one is safe when Congress is in session. And that's pretty much true. Aside from some constitutionally guaranteed activities like petitioning for redress of grievances, they can pretty much legislate anything they can agree upon. (Assuming they can ever agree on anything.)

For instance, the duly elected Democrats who control the House, Senate and White House like to point the finger at the Supreme Court, but they could easily pass whatever law they want about abortion. There would be no more arguing about original intent or penumbrae etc.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#15
post #10

This is huge. Essentially if they find anyone sold crypto to unaccredited investors they would be engaging in illegal sales of a security. This may lead to lawsuits where crypto sellers find they are on the hook for the losses of people they illegally sold to. It may also lead to jail time for a substantial portion of the crypto community.

The odds of this happening are effectively 0, federal government is working on a regulatory framework for crypto markets and it definitely doesn’t involve jailing anyone for sales that have previously been considered legal by basically everyone

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#16
Bitcoin has less foundation- or team-based leadership that have plagued other crypto projects. This leadership (eg Ethereum foundation) gives crypto projects the air of legitimacy, but also the impression, as Hinman put it, that some managerial work and direction is expected, tipping the scale towards security. If the network becomes decentralized to the point where no one party has sway over its direction (even a good one eg the move to proof of stake), only then can you consider it a commodity, at least in Hinman’s view.

Not only does this make sense but it also further speaks to the strength of the bitcoin project, specifically Satoshi’s decision to not be a public figure/BDFL. I doubt this security-commodity issue factored in specifically, but it was really a brilliant and largely unprecedented move that aligns with bitcoin’s political philosophy as well: no leaders.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#17
post #10

This is huge. Essentially if they find anyone sold crypto to unaccredited investors they would be engaging in illegal sales of a security. This may lead to lawsuits where crypto sellers find they are on the hook for the losses of people they illegally sold to. It may also lead to jail time for a substantial portion of the crypto community.

No, this is grossly misleading. Bitcoin is the only one he was prepared to say publicly at that moment was a commodity. That doesn't really say anything about other coins other than he's not willing to take a public stand at that moment.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#18

The SEC can threaten, but they may have blown up their opportunity to regulate cryptocurrency. If they lose the Ripple vs SEC lawsuit (and, according to observers, it's not been going as well for the SEC as they would wish), they could permanently lose almost all ability to regulate cryptocurrency by their lack of timely action and because of one speech by an SEC official four years ago. The SEC is basically trying t…

No lawyers familiar with how administrative agencies work agree with that assessment. And that is, importantly, not how rulemaking works at administrative agencies.

EDIT: Administrative agency "rulemaking" is constrained by a fixed set of procedures that an agency must follow in order to "promulgate" a rule. First, they must publish a draft of the proposed rules, allow for several weeks or months of public comment, spend several weeks or months reviewing those comments, revise the rules as needed based on the comments received (or explain why no revisions are necessary), and then finally publish the finalized rules in the Federal Register.

Comments made by a single employee do not convey, or constrain, an agency's position on matters within its scope (unless those comments are made in, and pursuant to, a legal proceeding, in which case they are binding only for the limited scope of that legal proceeding).

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#19
post #15
post #10

This is huge. Essentially if they find anyone sold crypto to unaccredited investors they would be engaging in illegal sales of a security. This may lead to lawsuits where crypto sellers find they are on the hook for the losses of people they illegally sold to. It may also lead to jail time for a substantial portion of the crypto community.

The odds of this happening are effectively 0, federal government is working on a regulatory framework for crypto markets and it definitely doesn’t involve jailing anyone for sales that have previously been considered legal by basically everyone

It would probably run afoul of the Constitutional protection against "ex post facto" laws.[0] If something (in this case, selling Bitcoin) was legal when you did it, but is now a crime, it is unconstitutional to prosecute you for it.

[0]: Article I, Section 9 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_St...>

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#20
post #6

Feels like if BTC is a commodity, then BCH and LTC clearly are as well, no?

Correct. At a minimum, those are not a security.

Gensler has commented on those specifically in the past [1].

[1] https://twitter.com/litecoin/status/1435991743720165378

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