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Increased Subscription Pricing for IDEs, .NET Tools, and the All Products Pack

blog.jetbrains.com

111–120 of 181 posts

Re: Increased Subscription Pricing for IDEs, .NET Tools, and the All Products Pack

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no comparison between using VSCode and IntelliJ for Java development

There's Eclipse too. It was almost always the better IDE for pure Java development. IntelliJ was always heavier and buggier whenever I tried using it.

True, I had to switch to intellij about six years ago because Eclipse just wasn't able to handle projects I was working on (gradle, spring boot) anymore. It just made a mess of the gradle support and I gave up on it. Never saw that working properly in Eclispe. These days with Kotlin, it's just not an option. The Kotlin support is just not really usable.

Features I still miss:

- Real incremental compilation. Real as in, lift your finger and it's ready to run before you manage to hit the key-combination that actually launches the test. Intellij under the best of circumstances does not get closer than five to ten seconds (full seconds). Eclipse could run the same test dozens of time in the same time span. It was that fast.

- An IDE that does not lie about the compilation state of my project. Intellij is perpetually confused about this. It will tell me everything is fine when it is not. And the opposite. I can never trust it until I do a full rebuild. Which is slow. Eclipse was much more consistent with this. Make typo, everything goes red instantly. Fix the typo, the red disappears. It mostly stayed consistent throughout a working day. Occasionally it would need a little nudge and then it would fix itself and get back to being super responsive. Typically when messing with dependencies.

Those two are connected of course.

Intellij is two orders of magnitudes slower than Eclipse for this. That's a 100x. I'm talking ms vs. ten seconds plus. I could make a case for 3 orders of magnitudes for some things. I deal with scenarios every day where it needs half a minute (or worse) to boil the oceans where I know from a decade plus of experience that Eclipse would have caught up nearly instantly and it would not have slowed me down.

Unfortunately, Intellij would have to be redesigned from the ground up to get close to this level of performance. It's simply designed wrong to ever get that good. The fact that it relies on gradle (or maven) to do a lot of things means it's going to be bottleneck. Eclipse had a real incremental compiler properly integrated into the IDE and a good enough integration with maven that it could import classpath dependencies from there without needing to run it all the time.

It even did partial compilation when part of your code was wrong/broken (e.g. because you had not finished typing yet). It would still be able to run the non broken parts of it. And it would accurately tell which parts were broken. Intellij freaks out if that happens and quite often needs to be restarted to get rid of all the red squiggly lines for phantom problems. It will spawn lots of errors that aren't errors until you fix the actual error. There's a reason it has synchronize buttons, invalidate caches, and other functionality to force it to re-assess the state of things: it loses track of this all the time. Their issue tracker is full of issues related to this. People have been reporting them for decades (just in case somebody unhelpfully suggests I create an issue for this).

So, yes, I miss that. Kotlin particularly is a pain in the ass. As much as I like the language, I really hate it's compiler speed (or lack thereof).

Re: Increased Subscription Pricing for IDEs, .NET Tools, and the All Products Pack

#112
post #37

I get so much value out of JetBrains products that if a price increase is what is needed or them to stay on business I can accept that. (The products are paid by my employer so this only affects indirectly) It might be an unpopular opinion but I appreciate the transparency of the post. There are other companies which products I use that I’m afraid are not financially sustainable and thus I’m afraid for an email sayin…

Agreed. I also get a license from my employer, but continue to pay for the all products pack separately because they make such nice stuff, and I'm happy to support them in this small, mostly symbolic way.

Re: Increased Subscription Pricing for IDEs, .NET Tools, and the All Products Pack

#113
Before I clicked the link I assumed this was a sensationalised headline. It's interesting how direct the communication is here.

Normally companies will try to justify their price increases in a lengthy blog post focusing on the "awesome new features" they've been working on, but not here. Just a few paragraphs summarised by, "we are at the point where we need to increase our subscription prices". Fair enough.

As a user obviously price increases are never welcome, but within reason I think we have to be understanding. JetBrains offers a huge amount of value to many companies and individuals. It might not be worth the price to everyone, but their pricing doesn't seem unreasonable to me and quality software is never going to be cheap.

Re: Increased Subscription Pricing for IDEs, .NET Tools, and the All Products Pack

#114
post #95

Jetbrains doesn’t get my money because of how much of a confusing mess their product lineup is. They have a bunch of different IDEs sold separately that ultimately seem to be identical except for language support. Why isn’t language support implemented as plugins if all the IDEs share a common framework? Last I checked, it seemed like they do have an “ultimate” version with multiple language support… except that one…

> It also doesn’t help that they have a subscription licensing plan. Even though they do have perpetual fallback, it doesn’t seem like a giant bloated IDE like this will hold up very long without updates.

FWIW, I stopped updating paying for IDEA in 2019 and it hasn't bothered me. I don't do JVM stuff every day anymore, that's why I stopped, but when I have to go hack on something, it's just fine.

Agreed on the multiple IDEs thing. I don't write C++ regularly but that'd make me tear my hair out.

Re: Increased Subscription Pricing for IDEs, .NET Tools, and the All Products Pack

#115
post #90

The heavier IDEs are in real trouble given the impressive state of VS Code lately. I haven't found the need to reach for a bigger IDE than Code in a while and I've been perfectly productive in JS, C, Rust and Python projects lately. Do yourself a favour and try out Code for your next project.

I feel the opposite way. VSCode feels clunky and disjointed compared to the experience I get from JetBrains IDEs. Also, both have 3rd party plug-ins but JetBrains seems to contain a lot more of the features I want as first class integrations whereas I generally have to find a plugin for VSCode and hope it's well maintained.

The first class integrations are key. I think VSCode can probably do just about everything GoLand can, but you need to configure a half dozen plugins to get there.

I will say that writing a VSCode plugin seems much easier than an IntelliJ plugin. So if you need that level of customization, VSCode might be the preferred tool.

Re: Increased Subscription Pricing for IDEs, .NET Tools, and the All Products Pack

#116
post #10

What the hell is up with prices? Everything I pay in dollars became 20% more expensive. My cereal became 20% more expensive. Jetbrains becomes 20% more expensive. This is the first time in my life (34 yo) that price changes have been so large that they’re apparent to me. And even with a dev salary the combined amount is high enough that it has an impact on my behavior.

>This is the first time in my life (34 yo) that price changes have been so large that they’re apparent to me. We lived through a unique time in history, and that unique time has lasted for our entire adult lives. I’m also 34. I graduated college right when the low interest rates were juicing the economy. But the party had to come to an end sometime. Ask your parents what it was like in the 1970s. Oil shocks, interest…

> Oil shocks, interest rates at 15%. History rhymes.

Except the G-20 average public debt in the 70s was like 30% of the GDP.

We cannot go to interest rates at 15% with countries having 100%+ public debt (as is the case nearly everywhere in Europe for example).

Re: Increased Subscription Pricing for IDEs, .NET Tools, and the All Products Pack

#118
post #10

What the hell is up with prices? Everything I pay in dollars became 20% more expensive. My cereal became 20% more expensive. Jetbrains becomes 20% more expensive. This is the first time in my life (34 yo) that price changes have been so large that they’re apparent to me. And even with a dev salary the combined amount is high enough that it has an impact on my behavior.

Well when 80% of all US Dollars were "printed" / created in the last 2-3 years massive inflation will follow What we are seeing is the predictable result of the classic monetary models, and a rejection of Modern Monetary Theory which linked limits of government spending to the availability of real resources, like workers. Which is why you see people like The Treasury Sec saying the Economy is good because of employme…

>Well when 80% of all US Dollars were "printed" / created in the last 2-3 years massive inflation will follow

I've heard this is a completely debunked conspiracy theory:

https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2022/04/fact-check-80-per...

You see, this is why Disinformation Governance Board was a good idea.

Re: Increased Subscription Pricing for IDEs, .NET Tools, and the All Products Pack

#119
post #106

Most JetBrains products are super slow, and resource hogs. I get red mist in front of my eyes whenever I see a DataGrip icon as it tends to consume all your CPU and memory for complex databases regardless of your machine spec. These days I am mostly using VsCode for development and TablePlus/Postico for database development.

I thought I was the only one. For me it was GoLand, not to mention the constant feeling that im being watched. VSCode without telemetry is what I moved to.

JetBrains IDEs ask you whether you want to submit usage data on the first startup, and honor your choice. You are not watched if you don't give an explicit, opt-in permission for that.

Re: Increased Subscription Pricing for IDEs, .NET Tools, and the All Products Pack

#120
post #10

What the hell is up with prices? Everything I pay in dollars became 20% more expensive. My cereal became 20% more expensive. Jetbrains becomes 20% more expensive. This is the first time in my life (34 yo) that price changes have been so large that they’re apparent to me. And even with a dev salary the combined amount is high enough that it has an impact on my behavior.

>What the hell is up with prices?

We deliberately raised the gas prices to punish Putin. Gas prices affect the price of food due to shipping. Food prices affect the price of software due to eating. Don't worry, it's all under control. We will soon fix this by printing more money, prohibiting gasoline cars and making people eat insects for protein. Meanwhile, we suggest you weather the storm by investing most of your money into cryptocurrencies[1].

[1] https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/cryptocurrency-and-the-esg-i...

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