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FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud

ftc.gov

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Re: FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud

#151

Post by lordgrenville »

liaukovv wrote: post #140
jjeaff wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was chatting with an elderly man in front of me in line at the post office years ago. He was complaining that he had already paid so many fees but was really close to collecting his winnings from the Australian lottery (we were in the US). And according to him, he never even entered the lottery. I told him that this was a common scam and that they were simply stealing his money and to not send them anymore. He said…

Why do you consider yourself or the cashier to be in position to deny the man his lawful right to be stupid?

"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others." (J.S. Mill).

I think this is a good example of the limitations of this principle. It precludes social cohesion and mutual responsibility.

Re: FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud

#152

Post by bastawhiz »

imgabe wrote: post #139
bastawhiz wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd bet many cases were obvious. How many people told the employees they were paying IRS fees? Or that they had a long lost relative who contacted them? Many of these scams aren't sophisticated and the people falling for them are gullible. It's not hard to imagine that an employee with a bit more sense than the customer could have simply been told what's happening and realized it's probably illegitimate.

> making it easy for scammers to retrieve fraud proceeds at a Walmart location. The cashiers are giving the money to the scammer, not getting the money from the person being scammed. The scammers, if they're any good, are probably not making chit-chat or doing anything to draw suspicion to themselves.

It's both. Walmart is on both sides of many of the transactions, and they have allegedly been negligent on both.

Re: FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud

#153

Post by LocalH »

trhway wrote: post #141
liaukovv wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you consider yourself or the cashier to be in position to deny the man his lawful right to be stupid?

Well, if one sees a crime being committed against an elderly person, it is kind of an recognized social duty to intercede, though really there seems to be no good practical way of doing so in the case like this. And some level of stupidity, either natural or appearing with age, qualifies people to lose their right to be stupid, ie. conservatorship. Unfortunately it is a very heavy legal process of a sledgehammer when…

>And some level of stupidity, either natural or appearing with age, qualifies people to lose their right to be stupid, ie. conservatorship.

Which are abused nationwide

Re: FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud

#154

Post by pxx »

klipt wrote: post #67
rtkwe wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit card rewards churning probably. Basically finding cards with either attractive starting offers or ongoing rewards and then generating cash flow through them that is recurring. One example was the mint at one point was selling some coin online with free shipping, after receiving the coins you'd just deposit them into your account for zero loss. It looked like a normal purchase to the CC so you got the full poin…

> One example was the mint at one point was selling some coin online with free shipping, after receiving the coins you'd just deposit them into your account for zero loss. It looked like a normal purchase to the CC so you got the full points for it. Presumably the mint was eating the credit card fees on this, so effectively it was a transfer of money from the government to the churner, with the credit card company ke…

The mint actually wanted to get rid of the dollar coins that they were accumulating storage fees on. Congress decided to make the mint mint way too many dollar coins (and prohibited it from advertising) and nobody wanted them. Once people ordered and deposited them they'd make their way to the Federal Reserve and were no longer the mint's problem.

So yes, a transfer of money from the government to the purchaser, but with a lot more steps.

Don't forget the free shipping. The USPS probably got paid by the mint.

Re: FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud

#155

Post by piva00 »

liaukovv wrote: post #149
piva00 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you consider that total freedom of an oblivious individual fucking their finances is a good thing for society? As a society we are actually here to help others with our experiences, if the experience of a cashier with multiple fraudulent transactions can help a soul to not be a sucker, why shouldn't they use that power? Why do you consider "lawful" as the only measure of "good"?

Freedom is important

Avoiding financial distress and/or ruin is important as well.

How you balance this equation is the hard part that takes effort and deep thinking and the subject to much discussion in many fields of philosophy.

Being a maximalist is the road to stupid dogmatic behaviour. The path to radical extremism.

Re: FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud

#156

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

fortran77 wrote: post #91
causality0 wrote: post #88

This week a fast food worker was shot and killed because someone had too much mayo on their burger. You think a company is going to tell ten dollar an hour workers to piss off criminals?

I had to check this for myself. It's true: https://fox11online.com/news/nation-world/subway-worker-shot...

> I don't know what the world is coming to especially with our youth. They seem to be so hot headed

Is kind of an ironic comment for a Fox affiliate to publish.

Re: FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud

#157

Post by danaris »

roenxi wrote: post #145
trhway wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if one sees a crime being committed against an elderly person, it is kind of an recognized social duty to intercede, though really there seems to be no good practical way of doing so in the case like this. And some level of stupidity, either natural or appearing with age, qualifies people to lose their right to be stupid, ie. conservatorship. Unfortunately it is a very heavy legal process of a sledgehammer when…

There is a raw question of power here - who has final say over how the money gets spent? They own the money. Letting old people get scammed is unpleasant. Letting old people be disenfranchised by random clerks and passers by is substantially worse. All the outcomes are bad, the one implied as an improvement here is much worse than the status quo.

You see old people losing their life savings—the only money they have to live on—as being better than them having certain very obviously fraudulent financial transactions questioned, and potentially delayed?

Re: FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud

#158

Post by liaukovv »

piva00 wrote: post #155
liaukovv wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom is important

Avoiding financial distress and/or ruin is important as well. How you balance this equation is the hard part that takes effort and deep thinking and the subject to much discussion in many fields of philosophy. Being a maximalist is the road to stupid dogmatic behaviour. The path to radical extremism.

Those are not even in the same league

Re: FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud

#159

Post by piva00 »

liaukovv wrote: post #158
piva00 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Avoiding financial distress and/or ruin is important as well. How you balance this equation is the hard part that takes effort and deep thinking and the subject to much discussion in many fields of philosophy. Being a maximalist is the road to stupid dogmatic behaviour. The path to radical extremism.

Those are not even in the same league

Those what? I feel you aren't really interested in engaging on a discussion here, throwing hot takes and platitudes isn't very conducive to have a conversation...

Re: FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud

#160

Post by FireBeyond »

jjeaff wrote: post #137
hattmall wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western Union had a check list of questions to ask if certain amounts / destinations were met. Did you win a lottery? Are you claiming an inheritance? Is this to help someone you know, but haven't spoken to? Is this to pay a fine, tax or other government fee? Seems pretty simple to rule out a lot of them.

I was chatting with an elderly man in front of me in line at the post office years ago. He was complaining that he had already paid so many fees but was really close to collecting his winnings from the Australian lottery (we were in the US). And according to him, he never even entered the lottery. I told him that this was a common scam and that they were simply stealing his money and to not send them anymore. He said…

My father, who is in his 70s, and mentally very sharp, although a little hard of hearing, was trying to organize a wire transfer from Australia to me in the US for around $25K.

He had a hell of a time doing it, not even as a matter of international wire logistics, but convincing the bank staff to "allow" him to do so because they were "concerned he was being scammed".

On one hand I appreciated their concern, but as he told them, "Do you see my (very very uncommon) family name? See his? It's my son." "Well, have you spoken to your son? Did he ask you to send him money on Facebook?" "No, WE offered to send him a gift towards downpayment of a house." "How do you know this is his bank account details?" "Because I asked him for them and he gave them to me?"

He got ... quite frustrated.

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