Earlier quoted context omitted.
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I'm another Russian who uses the term exactly this way. What Russia is doing right now is textbook nazism.
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The Deported
21–30 of 141 posts
Re: The Deported
#22As a Turk with very little interest to History, would like to share my guesses about viewpoints of these characters have.
First of all I am very impressed about how modern the ambassador is for 192X. He is Liberal exactly like someone from USA would be today.
Now! Liberalism is not a idea that is easily accessible back then. Let alone find a any group of people that will backup you in this way. Even in current Turkey's politics: only 2-3 parties are viable in election and they are all about deciding whether country should go Muslim-National (Auth-Right but Muslim Traders Only) or National-National (Auth-Left)
Considering that Ottoman Empire was multi-cultural gaint and considering that literacy of people of Ottoman Empire were about low as %10. People from same culture/race/religion lived near together and even tho there have been problems here and there, they were probably doing fine like humanity of today.
But when once-in-a-life-time event occurs and you find yourself survived a war but your old government is colepsed; and the New authority (politicly) doesn't look anything different from a group of revolters/rioters from at your standpoint. Who can you trust in the middle of all this chaos other than people of your race/culture/religion.
Kurds, Armenians, Greeks, Muslims Cults/Sheiks, Old Ottoman Government's supporters, all rioted and tried to overthrown the new authority of TBMM (team Ataturk/Republic) within very near time spans.
At that point it must have been normal to react to these 'issues' with this much aggression.
Calling it 'Ptsd of an authority' would sum it maybe.
Still the whole event is presumably a overkill/genocide when we take a look at from the current perspective.
Re: The Deported
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a Russian, grew up in USSR and like for many others in USSR members of my family fought, died, got decorated fighting German Nazi in WWII. So I wonder what kind of disrespect you mean. >I know American use the term extremely casually like it meant nothing. Do you think genocide and ethnic cleansing that the Russia Nazism conducts now in Ukraine is "nothing"?
This is a war carried out against a neighboring country for territorial and security reasons. It's wrong for all the reasons aggressive wars are always wrong, but I don't see it as genocidal in the "now we kill all the Ukrainians" way. There certainly have been genocidal policies by Russians against Ukraine in the past, but I don't see it here.
What's the deal with this "security reasons" talk? You can literally just listen to the 30 minute speech Putin had on the very eve of this war.
Re: The Deported
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
As i said i have members of the family who actually died in that fight, and i don't see anything disrespectful toward them in calling a nazist regime for what it is.
If you think Putin regime is nazist I regret having to inform you that said family members might have fought against nazism but did fail to explain to you what it was.
just out of curiosity, if we take a very simple, very narrow and in my view obvious case, and i'm just wondering what do you see there. This is a video of Rogozin, the Putin's favorite who is the CEO of the cornerstone of Russian nationalistic pride - Roskosmos - and who is one of the most prominent political voices in the today's Russia, and what i see in this video is him leading a Nazi salute and the end of his Nazi speech at the Russian Nazi march in Moscow (the specific phrase they all give Nazi salute to is "Glory to Russia!"). So what do you see here?
Re: The Deported
#25As a Turk with very little interest to History, would like to share my guesses about viewpoints of these characters have. First of all I am very impressed about how modern the ambassador is for 192X. He is Liberal exactly like someone from USA would be today. Now! Liberalism is not a idea that is easily accessible back then. Let alone find a any group of people that will backup you in this way. Even in current Turkey…
"Kurds, Armenians, Greeks, Muslims Cults/Sheiks, Old Ottoman Government's supporters, all rioted and tried to overthrown the new authority of TBMM (team Ataturk/Republic) within very near time spans.
At that point it must have been normal to react to these 'issues' with this much aggression."
Your timeline is off, The new parliament (TBMM) was established in 1920 and new republic in 1923. The events described in the article happened in 1915. Ambassador's letter was written in 1916.
Re: The Deported
#26As a Turk with very little interest to History, would like to share my guesses about viewpoints of these characters have. First of all I am very impressed about how modern the ambassador is for 192X. He is Liberal exactly like someone from USA would be today. Now! Liberalism is not a idea that is easily accessible back then. Let alone find a any group of people that will backup you in this way. Even in current Turkey…
"Kurds, Armenians, Greeks, Muslims Cults/Sheiks, Old Ottoman Government's supporters, all rioted and tried to overthrown the new authority of TBMM (team Ataturk/Republic) within very near time spans. At that point it must have been normal to react to these 'issues' with this much aggression." Your timeline is off, The new parliament (TBMM) was established in 1920 and new republic in 1923. The events described in the…
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Re: The Deported
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nazism = totalitarian fascist state plus political nationalism. Fascist Italy and Spain weren't nazist for example, while Germany was and Russia today is. Informally that specific flavor of the Russian Nazi ideology is called "rashism".
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Re: The Deported
#28> “You are making a terrible mistake,” I said, and I repeated the statement three times. > “Yes, we may make mistakes,” he replied, “but”—and he firmly closed his lips and shook his head—“we never regret.” And they never did. They don’t even acknowledge it. Interesting to contrast the response of the German state to its genocide and that of Turkey’s. > We base our objections to the Armenians on three distinct grounds…
> Thankfully no large scale violence so far though, they have just stuck to the rhetoric.
This is exactly how it looked in Rwanda and other places before some spark lit large-scale violence.
Re: The Deported
#29> “You are making a terrible mistake,” I said, and I repeated the statement three times. > “Yes, we may make mistakes,” he replied, “but”—and he firmly closed his lips and shook his head—“we never regret.” And they never did. They don’t even acknowledge it. Interesting to contrast the response of the German state to its genocide and that of Turkey’s. > We base our objections to the Armenians on three distinct grounds…
Not that it's okay, but the Tamil Nadu situation seems (to an outsider) to be a class/caste based call to violence more than a racial genocide. Sort of like "eat the rich", where there's no specific call to ethnically cleanse anyone, "just" for class warfare.
Definitely possible I'm missing something, and it's a touchy subject, but one I'm increasingly interested in these times. So feel free to correct if I'm wrong, or just chime in.
Re: The Deported
#30> “You are making a terrible mistake,” I said, and I repeated the statement three times. > “Yes, we may make mistakes,” he replied, “but”—and he firmly closed his lips and shook his head—“we never regret.” And they never did. They don’t even acknowledge it. Interesting to contrast the response of the German state to its genocide and that of Turkey’s. > We base our objections to the Armenians on three distinct grounds…
Not that it's okay, but the Tamil Nadu situation seems (to an outsider) to be a class/caste based call to violence more than a racial genocide. Sort of like "eat the rich", where there's no specific call to ethnically cleanse anyone, "just" for class warfare. Definitely possible I'm missing something, and it's a touchy subject, but one I'm increasingly interested in these times. So feel free to correct if I'm wrong,…
In Tamil Nadu, there are racial overtones to this call for violence. It’s targeted specifically at Tamil Brahmins, regarded as “outsider Aryans”.
There are other wealthy landed castes, but they are not the target of this rhetoric (and they are the ones in power). So it’s not just “eat the rich”.
Along side this, there’s actual physical violence between other caste groups. The ones targeting Brahmins is interesting because of the language used (example above) and how normative it has become (Tamil mainstream media will not call it out, pop culture acceptance and tropes), their complete lack of political power in the state and the absence of much physical violence. There’s some very fascinating history behind this. In case you are interested in how the current moment came about, two books:
1. The Emergence of Provincial Politics, DA Washbrook - https://www.amazon.com/Emergence-Provincial-Politics-Preside...
2. The politics of south India, CJ Baker - https://www.amazon.com/Politics-South-1920-1937-Cambridge-St...