Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know the answer, it's an honest question. Obviously having children changes your life completely, it is a huge burden and you have to "sacrifice" a lot. But almost nobody regrets it. Probably because we are hardwired to have children. The joy outweighs any sacrifices. I don't know anyone that wishes they hadn't let their children be born, no matter how harsh their circumstances.
But almost nobody regrets it. Yeah, no. Gen X-er here - born before Roe v Wade. My own mother told me she'd have aborted me had it been legal. She felt trapped into getting married to someone she ultimately didn't love. I witnessed several domestic violence issues growing up. The "good news" is I wasn't alone - I knew other kids that had similar home issues. It was way more widespread than people let on. This whole n…
Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data
281–290 of 331 posts
Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm outraged because nobody in this thread is as interested in drawing a line somewhere between "postcoital contraception" and "aborting a nearly-viable fetus" as they are in holding the line on either side of "fertilized embryo" and "infant". I guess I'll add to the chorus of people who "just don't understand the other side" in saying that I don't understand either side. Arguing for fertilized embryo rights makes no…
> But arguing in favor of abortion and not even mentioning where the line is drawn makes just as little sense. Because it's not really relevant—the laws making it illegal are making it illegal across the board, no matter how early. The only reason for the heartbeat style laws was to make abortions as a whole as difficult as they could be under Roe. But now that's no longer a concern, the bans are across the board. >…
This doesn't make any sense. Since the recent SCOTUS decision, laws are surely being drafted in many states right now. People may still be discussing, writing, overturning, and re-writing abortion law twenty years from now. Having a coherent moral position on the issue is absolutely relevant.
> But now that's no longer a concern, the bans are across the board.
This is just completely false. There are fifty states, and most of them have now and will continue to have threshold or multi-threshold laws. By my count six states have blanket bans, and the percentage of the population living under those blanket ban laws is extremely small.
And this is exactly what's bugging me. I think there is a vast middle ground of people who believe all these things:
1. Aborting a fetus with a functioning brain is wrong.
2. Forcing women to carry pregnancies to term against their will is wrong.
3. (1) becomes more wrong the further developed the fetus is.
4. (2) becomes more wrong the greater the harm or risk of harm to the mother is.
And these are the people writing most of the laws in most states. They're also the people that drafted the original Roe v. Wade opinion. These people fall on a spectrum between pro-choice and pro-life, because it's a complicated moral question.
> So it's not discussed much because it's not a big part of what happens.
I think these are Internet goggles. I think it's discussed a lot, given how many different laws there are throughout the world and how detailed many of them are in their timelines and conditions. But for some reason on message boards, it's all Christians unsubtly implying that aborting a fertilized embryo is like making somebody who exists not exist anymore, and on the other side people saying "you're so dumb, a fetus isn't a person" as if that completely settles the question. And the same people act like it's equally obvious that's it's a horrific atrocity to kill an infant that only gestated for 24 weeks, just because its using its lungs and its location in space relative to the mother has changed.
Does it make sense if I say that I'm just as appalled by the simplistically-pro-choice disregard for somewhat-cognitively-developed fetuses as I am by the simplistically-pro-life disregard for a mother's burden? Why is it sufficient that late term abortions are just "rare, expensive, and unpleasant"? Aren't they just as wrong as keeping an unwilling mother from aborting a microscopic blastocyst?
Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
But almost nobody regrets it. Yeah, no. Gen X-er here - born before Roe v Wade. My own mother told me she'd have aborted me had it been legal. She felt trapped into getting married to someone she ultimately didn't love. I witnessed several domestic violence issues growing up. The "good news" is I wasn't alone - I knew other kids that had similar home issues. It was way more widespread than people let on. This whole n…
You are not actually saying that she regretted having you, only that at the time she would have killed you if she could. It's obviously a horrible thing to say, to even feel, but it's different from what we are discussing.
Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
Those have no bearing on the autonomy of the donor. The ethicalness of declining to donate isn't contingent on support of medical professionals nor the concept of active or passive action. What does supervene on the ethicalness of the action is autonomy. Bodily autonomy gives a donor the right to back away at the last minute, not the concept of passive action or medical support. I'm not disagreeing that those exist,…
Parents have an obligation to the care and development of their children. There are plenty of parents who are found guilty of negligence. That is more appropriate than the donor concept.
The donor concept is a perfectly valid parallel. I can understand that someone wouldn't like it if it challenges their conclusions, but that's sort of the point. No one, not even the government, has more autonomy over ones body than oneself.
Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
Page 501 documents the research request and contact for human fetal tissue. https://www.judicialwatch.org/documents/jw-v-hhs-humanized-m... Also some famous undercover videos: https://www.centerformedicalprogress.org/cmp/investigative-f...
What’s the context? What is the research of? Is consent required / has it been received? Is this a common practice? Is it common to sell non-fetal tissue for research purposes? Etc etc Linking to a cryptic 575 page long PDF file is too conspiratorial to take seriously.
My point was specifically aimed at this parent comment. It is easy to make baseless wagers about motivation. I find it an equally compelling narrative that, given research and financial incentives, there is great motivation for abortion clinics to persuade individuals to abort children. Especially late-term abortions since developed infant organs are likely demanding a premium due to their rarity.
Both statements are conjectures.
Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
So the Democratic party are strongly advocating against safety nets to prevent children from growing up in abject poverty? Because that would be "socialist"? Regardless of abortion laws, this would seem like a basic requirement for any civilised society. I'm not sure why you would say that reliable contraception doesn't exist. Condoms are extremely effective, and cost nothing. When it comes to adoption, it is my unde…
> Condoms are extremely effective, and cost nothing. Condoms are only 98% effective even when used correctly[1]. Women need access to abortion. [1] https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/contraception/male-condoms/
Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are not actually saying that she regretted having you, only that at the time she would have killed you if she could. It's obviously a horrible thing to say, to even feel, but it's different from what we are discussing.
Let me make it clear - she regretted having me. Those are the cold hard facts. If she could have aborted me and had another child later when she was prepared to have that child then she may have loved that child. As it is, there's a very dark downside to forcing unwanted children into this world that isn't being discussed.
This turn of phrase, which I've seen used often, is bizarre and demonic. It implies that the default for children is to be killed.
Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's not killing someone. A fetus isn't a person. At 13 weeks, a fetus looks a heck of a lot like a baby: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Threedimensional-3d-ultr... (3D ultrasound image). And Roe guarantees elective abortions for another 9-10 weeks after that. > A fetus isn't a person. It's not sentient. It doesn't have hopes and dreams. Neither does my infant! > Lots of people are uncomfortable with the conce…
> At 13 weeks, a fetus looks a heck of a lot like a baby: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Threedimensional-3d-ultr ... (3D ultrasound image) Is that the only threshold? You should look at what dog and elephant fetuses look like.
Perhaps you’re thinking of embryonic development?
Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not that I support this ruling in any way or form, but the 2016 election led to the current slate of justices who came up with this ruling. It is probably good and by design that we don’t change justices with the popular vote.
The House of Representatives is fully inconsequential to the selection and confirmation of Supreme Court justices, and the only Republicans on the ballot nation-wide lost the popular vote by a substantial margin.
We’re only talking about the popular vote insofar as Democrats try to delegitimize Republican administrations by insisting that they are a minority party that can gain power only through the quirk of our voting system. But in doing so they conveniently ignore the House popular vote, which Republicans routinely win.
You shouldn’t drink your own Kool-Aid. This Nixonian “Silent Majority” thinking is bad for Democrats, insofar as it causes them to get over their skis. In 2010, Democrats lost the House popular vote by almost 6 million votes. They lost it by 5 million in 2014 and 1.5 million in 2016. The House popular vote is a far better proxy for where the parties stand with the electorate.
Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
Quoted post unavailable.
> who are now likely very glad they were born Have you talked to young people? Stats and meme culture strongly suggest the opposite, and it's for economic reasons and reasons like loss of personal freedoms such as "women's bodily autonomy".