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Tell HN: I DDoSed myself using CloudFront and Lambda Edge and got a $4.5k bill

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Re: Tell HN: I DDoSed myself using CloudFront and Lambda Edge and got a $4.5k bill

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ZeroMQ is too weird for me, yeah. NATS JetStream and NSQ are both promising but their durability options are unclear and while I have a background in devops/system architecture, I'm looking at building something whose entire staff is literally only me and so while I'm sure I can deploy it, I'm not sure I can effectively run it. SQS will do what I expect it to do, and that's pretty powerful.

disclosure: I work at Synadia We do have a hosted version of NATS called NGS that is multi-cloud, multi-geo and is really easy to set up https://synadia.com/ngs

Your pricing is really very fair, especially since it's based on resource consumption and not per-request. One suggestion: put your pricing right on the home page. I'm starting to wonder why I am running it myself!

And, you probably know a little bit about NATS, too, since, you know, you wrote it! :)

https://nats.io/support/

Re: Tell HN: I DDoSed myself using CloudFront and Lambda Edge and got a $4.5k bill

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Servers can also be liability. You need to document, implement and maintaing hardening, have a process for regularly patching os and apps, monitor logs, have backup and disaster recovery procedures, regularly test the procedures, figure how to implement data encryption at rest, implement high-availability and so on. Good platform-as-service can solve many things for you and let you focus on the core thing you are pro…

I'd rather worry about (and fix) those technical problems then having to deal with possible billing-pocalyse.

I'd rather have to to plan and budget than have to deal with patching (after testing the patch) every piece of software on a system the moment a patch comes out to avoid an undetectable rootkit being installed during that gap

Re: Tell HN: I DDoSed myself using CloudFront and Lambda Edge and got a $4.5k bill

#243
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody says there isn't any use case for AWS. The point is that "the cool kids" like to start their side projects on AWS. Nothing about it is mission critical. I guarantee you op is not working on some Fintech stuff.

How's that bad? Isn't this how we all learned? By playing with cool modern technology?

I feel like learning how to configure bird, bind, haproxy, rdbms clusters, redundant MXs, etc. has taught me far more than spinning up equivalent virtual infrastructure on a public cloud would have. Getting to play with the underlying FOSS technologies is far more rewarding to me than using the commercialized versions on someone else's stack. Plus it helps me evaluate and architect my products for competing clouds, rather than my "knowledge and understanding" being tied to one particular vendor's offerings & lexicon. (Another advantage of knowing the underpinnings of a cloud is that it makes reading post-mortems[1] with a morning coffee so much more enjoyable.)

Assuming we're talking about side-projects/hobbyist development: when I'm doing that I want as few variable expenses as possible, and they usually don't require the purported benefits of the cloud. If such a project needs to scale: I'll bolt it onto a cloud at that point, or sprinkle in specific services to address the pain points.

[1]: https://tritondatacenter.com/blog/manta-postmortem-7-27-2015

Re: Tell HN: I DDoSed myself using CloudFront and Lambda Edge and got a $4.5k bill

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Azure HAS this hard limit feature already. Ive seen nobody on HN, twitter, reddit complain about "my site was down during heavy business since i turned on hard billing setting". Not a single person. However, I see frantic after frantic post of "I was testing something on AWS and it caused me a $X000 or $X0000 bill." But as the posts in here are apt to suggest - you can always beg AWS support for a reversal. Great pla…

The first is obviously customer error and unless you're posting to get laughed at, you're likely not to gain traction. (Also one could make the "nobody uses Azure" joke here.) Personally I think that much of AWS is "way overpowered" for the normal person/business, and you shouldn't be playing with it if a $X0k bill would be impactful (as likely other solutions are much better tuned to your needs and money).

If you drop a laptop, that's customer error. You break something or do something unintended that damages it, that's customer error.

When you are handed a tool that has multiple hidden guns and explosives inside of it, and ends up blowing your foot off is malfeasance of the people who handed the tool to you.

AWS is that tool. And given that Azure can implement these guard-rails and AWS chooses not to tells me all I need to know.

> Personally I think that much of AWS is "way overpowered" for the normal person/business, and you shouldn't be playing with it if a $X0k bill would be impactful (as likely other solutions are much better tuned to your needs and money).

Please compare and contrast this with "Learn AWS for furthering your career".

Re: Tell HN: I DDoSed myself using CloudFront and Lambda Edge and got a $4.5k bill

#245

I'm very much on the boring technology side of things with respect to hosting. 40€ / month gets you a very powerful dedicated server that can easily handle millions of requests per day and performs incredibly well and can be managed easily. If you also use containers you even get quite a bit of flexibility and agility. To be honest I don't really understand the sentiment that developers can get away with not knowing…

Servers can also be liability. You need to document, implement and maintaing hardening, have a process for regularly patching os and apps, monitor logs, have backup and disaster recovery procedures, regularly test the procedures, figure how to implement data encryption at rest, implement high-availability and so on. Good platform-as-service can solve many things for you and let you focus on the core thing you are pro…

> You need to document, implement and maintaing hardening, have a process for regularly patching os and apps, monitor logs, have backup and disaster recovery procedures, regularly test the procedures, figure how to implement data encryption at rest, implement high-availability and so on.

Hey, that's not exactly a correct comparison. You don't simply get half of those in the cloud either. Log monitoring and disaster recovery is something you have to figure out yourself, the best clouds have are some foundations to build upon, and possibly - some cookiecutter template that might fit your use case (if you're really lucky it'll even be decent). And you can get same stuff on traditional servers, just with different pre-baked solutions (which also may or may not fit a particular use case and may vary from perfectly good to quite crappy).

People love to brag about all the features (most not needed for your casual website), but somehow no one tells the fact that those features just won't be there when you'll start to use the cloud - because you have to be actively aware that you need them, explicitly enable some, and explicitly spend time learning, setting up and testing others. Unless we're talking about PaaS (and not a "classic" cloud like AWS, GCP or Azure), you still need someone with some sysadmin experience - except that this person must wear a different kind of sweater (with $Cloud logo rather than Tux or Beastie).

All you get is some hardening an OS + managed software (like LB servers and databases) patching. Which is something that's not that hard to do on a self-managed server (well, the software updates part; hardening is a rabbit hole). But not application patching, mind you - that's your responsibility to maintain your app, the very best it can do is to run a security audit (which you can get as a service separately). And even though managed databases are tuned (still a lot of manual tuning to do if you want the engine to truly purr) and maintained they aren't all that fun and peaches the marketing materials say - sometimes you just have to e.g. spin up your own self-hosted PostgreSQL to perform the tricky migration, then replicate it back to a managed solution.

Re: Tell HN: I DDoSed myself using CloudFront and Lambda Edge and got a $4.5k bill

#246

I think every developer has an AWS billing horror story. My horror story is that my site allows users to upload videos and share them to a limited number of colleagues. When a user requests a video, a CloudFront URL is created that lasts a few hours. I had not thought much about hotlinking because the link only lasts a few hours - what would be the point? Well, those few hours make a big difference when it’s linked o…

How can two few gb files = 10k usd of data in a few hours? How popular is that vietnamese porn site!!

> How popular is that vietnamese porn site!!

Getting to the important question here!

Re: Tell HN: I DDoSed myself using CloudFront and Lambda Edge and got a $4.5k bill

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Servers can also be liability. You need to document, implement and maintaing hardening, have a process for regularly patching os and apps, monitor logs, have backup and disaster recovery procedures, regularly test the procedures, figure how to implement data encryption at rest, implement high-availability and so on. Good platform-as-service can solve many things for you and let you focus on the core thing you are pro…

> Servers can also be liability. You need to document, implement and maintaing hardening, have a process for regularly patching os and apps, […], have backup and disaster recovery procedures, regularly test the procedures, […] and so on. Much of this complexity I eliminate by using the Immutable Server pattern: Specifically I deploy my app as a Docker container hosted on a virtual machine cluster managed by AWS Elast…

This is that I was thinking doing also - switch to using Elastic Beanstalk.

What do you do if you need to launch another instance of the app? For staging or testing.

Re: Tell HN: I DDoSed myself using CloudFront and Lambda Edge and got a $4.5k bill

#248

I'm very much on the boring technology side of things with respect to hosting. 40€ / month gets you a very powerful dedicated server that can easily handle millions of requests per day and performs incredibly well and can be managed easily. If you also use containers you even get quite a bit of flexibility and agility. To be honest I don't really understand the sentiment that developers can get away with not knowing…

I'm a fan of boring technology too, but I would like to suggest to you that Serverless _is_ kind of boring. Essentially you just upload a ZIP of your application, and register a handler function that takes a JSON payload. Obviously this is quite a bit more boring than a K8s cluster, with a bunch of nodes, networking, Helm charts, etc. I would posit that even compared to something like a DO Droplet, Serverless is stil…

Exactly! If you make your app compatible with serverless by following some restrictions, deployment is pretty boring.

In my opinion, it is easier to switch from serverless pattern to VM instances, and much more difficult to switch from VM to serverless without a major rewrite.

Re: Tell HN: I DDoSed myself using CloudFront and Lambda Edge and got a $4.5k bill

#249

I'm very much on the boring technology side of things with respect to hosting. 40€ / month gets you a very powerful dedicated server that can easily handle millions of requests per day and performs incredibly well and can be managed easily. If you also use containers you even get quite a bit of flexibility and agility. To be honest I don't really understand the sentiment that developers can get away with not knowing…

Also , $100 a month can get you a business line with a static IP for self hosting.

Re: Tell HN: I DDoSed myself using CloudFront and Lambda Edge and got a $4.5k bill

#250
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know about that, the hedge fund I work for is US-based and AWS can be fully SEC and FINRA compliant. We also have a few dedicated servers, but mostly only for infrequently accessed data and logging that doesn’t need to be highly available. I really can’t understand why this argument keeps coming up. Different solutions for different usecases. Yet anytime Kubernetes or cloud functions are discussed people come…

Pretty easy, OP sounds exactly like a guy who would have been perfectly fine with a single (Hetzner) server. Then these arguments popup and they are most of the time right. I agree with you, that it always depends on the use. However, hurr durr Hetzner Server seems to be the more reasonable choice here (once again).

OP here.

Hetzner provides incredibly beefy machines for a good price.

I’ve been managing 2 machine cluster setup in the past using Hetzner and it worked fine.

Unfortunately I have had an incident with one machine going bad unexpectedly(RAM issue) and I was forced to spend whole day setting up a new one.

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