Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Leetcode Considered Harmful

fullcontextdevelopment.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 132 posts

Re: Leetcode Considered Harmful

#111

Post by 62951413 »

spacetraveler11 wrote: post #69
porcoda wrote: post #12

Happily employed and had no trouble with coding interviews myself. So my opinion isn’t from some personal angst about passing this bar: I found it easy. That said: I’m tired of the attitude that there is no effective alternative to this style of interview. You do know we hired people to do engineering jobs for many decades before the industry started cargo culting what they observed a handful of Silicon Valley mega-c…

Is there a difference in the interview process between the US and the EU? Wherever I applied to in the EU I was almost always given a small, practical programming exercise relevant to the field I was applying for and for which I had a few days to hand in my solution (usually they were quick to solve, depending on the level of polish you would put in). In the interview itself we would then discuss the implementation a…

Very much so. The leetcode charade was invented in the US (and even ten years ago it wasn't common). Nowadays it's the only way they do it here even in regular companies with unremarkable tech and benefits.

The FAANGs brought this style to the EU but it's not as [dynamic programming-level] crazy yet. Interviewing in Europe feels more humane while here in the States it's gives you a distinct mechanical taste. And Europeans are more likely to discuss relevant tech and previous experience with it.

From what I have seen take home tasks had been popular in the EU before they became more common here.

Re: Leetcode Considered Harmful

#112

Post by whateveracct »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #56
samsquire wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux kernel is not MANGA Otherwise could you tell us what you meant.

Every one of those companies (except possibly Apple) absolutely is a contributor to the Linux kernel.

That's getting pedantic imo. The original comment acted like you either build foundational tools at MANGA or glue them together elsewhere.

Linux kernel isn't really proof of either lol.

Re: Leetcode Considered Harmful

#113

Post by whateveracct »

greenpeas wrote: post #29
whateveracct wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MANGA has built (or even contributed to in passing) basically 0 of the tools I use in production...

The Chrome browser and various protocols (SPDY/HTTP2 and others though I need to do some research to know exactly which ones). They've also invested a lot in optimizing the JS engine. The Go language, so indirectly contributed to any tool built in Go.

Given the comment I'm replying to, Chrome doesn't really disprove my point imo.

Re: Leetcode Considered Harmful

#114

Post by thaneross »

jaredklewis wrote: post #106
porcoda wrote: post #12

Happily employed and had no trouble with coding interviews myself. So my opinion isn’t from some personal angst about passing this bar: I found it easy. That said: I’m tired of the attitude that there is no effective alternative to this style of interview. You do know we hired people to do engineering jobs for many decades before the industry started cargo culting what they observed a handful of Silicon Valley mega-c…

"There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses." -Bjarne Stroustrup And so it is with interviewing techniques. You say "[leetcode] interview processes are not the only way," which is of course true. But it is also true that all other interviewing techniques are also unpopular on HN and with programmers in general. Of course each programmer has one or more techniques th…

You're missing my preferred option, pair program on a problem which requires skills relevant for the job. Have the candidate use their preferred tools, ideally their own laptop to minimize discomfort. Make the problem too large to get done within the time block but gives a variety of technical skills for the candidate to show off.

Re: Leetcode Considered Harmful

#116

Post by pengaru »

whateveracct wrote: post #112
matthewmacleod wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every one of those companies (except possibly Apple) absolutely is a contributor to the Linux kernel.

That's getting pedantic imo. The original comment acted like you either build foundational tools at MANGA or glue them together elsewhere. Linux kernel isn't really proof of either lol.

You: "(or even contributed to in passing)"

Me: Points out obvious example to the contrary

You: That's getting pedantic imo

Re: Leetcode Considered Harmful

#117

Post by jjav »

porcoda wrote: post #12

Happily employed and had no trouble with coding interviews myself. So my opinion isn’t from some personal angst about passing this bar: I found it easy. That said: I’m tired of the attitude that there is no effective alternative to this style of interview. You do know we hired people to do engineering jobs for many decades before the industry started cargo culting what they observed a handful of Silicon Valley mega-c…

> You do know we hired people to do engineering jobs for many decades before the industry started cargo culting what they observed a handful of Silicon Valley mega-companies doing.

Very much this. I worry that those relatively new to this industry may now only have seen the leetcode-style interview disfunction madness and get the impression it's the only way.

Absolutely not! It's not how it used to be, it's not how it needs to be. I was closing in on 20 years into my career before ever hearing about this type of whiteboard algorithm memorization-style interview. It's common now, but it's not really normal and shouldn't be.

I for one take no part in that charade. I interview a lot of people and have never done a whiteboard algorithm dump question and never will.

I don't hire people to memorize algorithms from a book and write them on whiteboards all day, so I'm not going to interview for that irrelevant skill.

I'll read your resume and let's have a chat about projects you've worked on and what you'd like to work on.

Re: Leetcode Considered Harmful

#118

Post by jjav »

crsl wrote: post #77

I find Leetcode discussions strange. I recently changed jobs so I was preparing by doing some Leetcode problems. The actual problems I was asked during the interview process were very simple compared to what I expected. Interviewers even explicitly stated that they wanted to see how I think, and the solution didn't even have to compile. So in my experience the whole idea that «Leetcode is harmful» is overblown a litt…

> Interviewers even explicitly stated that they wanted to see how I think

That's a common phrase, but it's hardly ever true. You'll actually need to almost perfectly regurgitate the memorized solution, stumbling only enough to give a convincing theatrical impression that you're developing this algorithm on the spot instead of having memorized it (even though the original development of the algorithm probably took years of research).

Re: Leetcode Considered Harmful

#119

Post by throw34 »

AstralStorm wrote: post #63
hughesjj wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leetcode was created in part to be more equitable and objective. Before leetcode, we had people asking puzzles which had nothing to do with your coding abilities, like "How many balls could fit on a Boeing 747" or "If you have 9 balls, a see-saw, and one ball weighs more/less than the others, what is the minimum number of weighings to find said ball". Alma matter also used to matter a bunch more, and non-traditional…

How many times have you been asked to solve a leetcode-like problem at work? Ever?

Me personally, all the time.

In fact, I am taking a short break from a problem that reduces to graph coloring with 2 colors. [1] If you interview with our team we will absolutely ask LC style algorithmic problems because one will definitely use that knowledge with us, a lot.

The problem is not LC style interviews per se. The problem is not enough companies tailoring their interview to the role they're trying to fill.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graph_coloring

Re: Leetcode Considered Harmful

#120

Post by joeframbach »

cercatrova wrote: post #108
crsl wrote: post #77

I find Leetcode discussions strange. I recently changed jobs so I was preparing by doing some Leetcode problems. The actual problems I was asked during the interview process were very simple compared to what I expected. Interviewers even explicitly stated that they wanted to see how I think, and the solution didn't even have to compile. So in my experience the whole idea that «Leetcode is harmful» is overblown a litt…

Depends on the company. FAANG and unicorns will absolutely ask for it to compile (except Google which asks questions on Google Docs of all things), and they want the optimal solution almost right away and will penalize you for not getting such a solution.

I just had this unfortunate experience with Google. The interviewer presented some badly-defined vague problem statement, and started asking probing questions about implementation details right away. I'm trying to ask exactly what the problem is, and he's there asking me for the runtime complexity of the solution I'm proposing. Was this dude entirely checked out? It felt like I was talking to a wall.
Post reply on HN