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Tell HN: I DDoSed myself using CloudFront and Lambda Edge and got a $4.5k bill

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Re: Tell HN: I DDoSed myself using CloudFront and Lambda Edge and got a $4.5k bill

#121
post #88
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buy more servers, loadbalance, and don't take the short painful route architecture-wise? It isn't really that hard.

Can't wait to end my next system design with "just buy more servers. scaling isn't really that hard."

I've done exactly this in many meetings. It's a balance between infra costs and dev time optimizing spend. Typically ping pongs back and forth.

Re: Tell HN: I DDoSed myself using CloudFront and Lambda Edge and got a $4.5k bill

#122

I'm very much on the boring technology side of things with respect to hosting. 40€ / month gets you a very powerful dedicated server that can easily handle millions of requests per day and performs incredibly well and can be managed easily. If you also use containers you even get quite a bit of flexibility and agility. To be honest I don't really understand the sentiment that developers can get away with not knowing…

Yeah, but how will you scale up your multi-dozen-users-at-the-same-time app easily then?

Scaling is a hard problem. I've worked at places where we used a whole network of auto-scaleable services and guess what - you will still have problems. Each managed service has tradeoffs, often ones that you only encounter once you'd made a substantial commitment to that service. There is no free lunch and you're fooling yourself if you think there is one.

Often you get lucky and the cluster of managed services you select happen to scale along the metrics of your resource use. Many people's resource use patterns are similar and the managed service people take advantage of that. This is nice! But it's a trade for downside risk: you may find that your resource use patterns differ from the 90% case and your spend goes up very fast or your scaling hits a wall.

In my experience a lot of designing a service architecture is picking where you want your complexity. Services (in or out of containers) running on VMs have a simple billing and architectural model. In my experience they form a good basis to organize your other resources around and are a good foundation to grow from.

Re: Tell HN: I DDoSed myself using CloudFront and Lambda Edge and got a $4.5k bill

#123

I'm very much on the boring technology side of things with respect to hosting. 40€ / month gets you a very powerful dedicated server that can easily handle millions of requests per day and performs incredibly well and can be managed easily. If you also use containers you even get quite a bit of flexibility and agility. To be honest I don't really understand the sentiment that developers can get away with not knowing…

Where can you get a dedicated for 40?

Re: Tell HN: I DDoSed myself using CloudFront and Lambda Edge and got a $4.5k bill

#124
post #59
post #37

I want to offer two counterpoints to common sentiments here regarding AWS billing. 1. Don't be afraid of playing around with AWS (and even spending some money). AWS is really good at refunding you if you accidentally rack up a couple grand in surprise bills. Also even if you legitimately spin up big servers to try a kubernetes cluster for a couple of days, that $20 you spent is almost certainly great bang-for-buck fo…

Interestingly, AWS won't refund service credits provided by an accelerator if you've accidentally blown through those instead.

Possession is 9/10ths of the law. If they have already been paid, they are not likely to refund you.

Re: Tell HN: I DDoSed myself using CloudFront and Lambda Edge and got a $4.5k bill

#125

I'm very much on the boring technology side of things with respect to hosting. 40€ / month gets you a very powerful dedicated server that can easily handle millions of requests per day and performs incredibly well and can be managed easily. If you also use containers you even get quite a bit of flexibility and agility. To be honest I don't really understand the sentiment that developers can get away with not knowing…

Where can you get a dedicated for 40?

Hetzner, OVH. Hell, if you go with Kimsufi (OVH's budget brand) you can get dedicated for a dozen bucks.

Re: Tell HN: I DDoSed myself using CloudFront and Lambda Edge and got a $4.5k bill

#126

I'm very much on the boring technology side of things with respect to hosting. 40€ / month gets you a very powerful dedicated server that can easily handle millions of requests per day and performs incredibly well and can be managed easily. If you also use containers you even get quite a bit of flexibility and agility. To be honest I don't really understand the sentiment that developers can get away with not knowing…

Servers can also be liability. You need to document, implement and maintaing hardening, have a process for regularly patching os and apps, monitor logs, have backup and disaster recovery procedures, regularly test the procedures, figure how to implement data encryption at rest, implement high-availability and so on. Good platform-as-service can solve many things for you and let you focus on the core thing you are pro…

I'd rather worry about (and fix) those technical problems then having to deal with possible billing-pocalyse.

Re: Tell HN: I DDoSed myself using CloudFront and Lambda Edge and got a $4.5k bill

#127

I'm very much on the boring technology side of things with respect to hosting. 40€ / month gets you a very powerful dedicated server that can easily handle millions of requests per day and performs incredibly well and can be managed easily. If you also use containers you even get quite a bit of flexibility and agility. To be honest I don't really understand the sentiment that developers can get away with not knowing…

Yeah, but how will you scale up your multi-dozen-users-at-the-same-time app easily then?

How do you scale your cloud app?

Usually, the hard part of scaling isn't raw compute power, it's scaling your datastore after you've already exhausted the option of throwing more compute power at it, and this problem remains whether you're on the cloud or not.

Until you hit that problem however, throwing more hardware at it is the right solution (you may be surprised just how much load a single Postgres server on bare-metal can handle).

Re: Tell HN: I DDoSed myself using CloudFront and Lambda Edge and got a $4.5k bill

#128

Off-topic maybe, but I'm very curious as it's hard to find hard numbers: > my usual bill is $200/month How many req/second are you serving? What kind of things are happening? It seems like the bills are outrageously expensive when it comes to various cloud services, as I'm personally hosting a service that does between 10-100 req/second on average during a month, and my monthly bill end up being closer to $40/month,…

It is depends on the user activity but typically it is not so many requests. Around 20 req/second with a reply in 100-400 ms.

These recursive requests were going at the rate 17k/second with 30s timeout each.

The benefits of the current approach is I don't need to manage any servers, and I have different environments for free. Also sizing is not an issue, I just tune AWS Lambda limits to be able to serve one single request.

I will need to invest some time to understand how big the instance should be (how much memory) because I struggle to measure how big it should be without going out of memory or CPU.

Re: Tell HN: I DDoSed myself using CloudFront and Lambda Edge and got a $4.5k bill

#129
post #37

I want to offer two counterpoints to common sentiments here regarding AWS billing. 1. Don't be afraid of playing around with AWS (and even spending some money). AWS is really good at refunding you if you accidentally rack up a couple grand in surprise bills. Also even if you legitimately spin up big servers to try a kubernetes cluster for a couple of days, that $20 you spent is almost certainly great bang-for-buck fo…

With regards (1), I feel like there are two different worlds (and given how non-transparent Amazon is, that's very believable).

I've never run up a huge AWS bill accidentally, but I personally know 2 people who have, and neither was refunded, even after asking. In both cases we are talking $400-$800, enough to really hurt someone, but not bankrupt them.

Re: Tell HN: I DDoSed myself using CloudFront and Lambda Edge and got a $4.5k bill

#130

I'm very much on the boring technology side of things with respect to hosting. 40€ / month gets you a very powerful dedicated server that can easily handle millions of requests per day and performs incredibly well and can be managed easily. If you also use containers you even get quite a bit of flexibility and agility. To be honest I don't really understand the sentiment that developers can get away with not knowing…

With almost service like hosting where there could potentially be unknown costs I always select services with fixed fees and pay annually via PayPal so no card info is stored.

If you have to pay by card and you have to subscribe always use a disposal virtual card. Most of the time these companies won't pursue you for payment because it's simply not worth the effort. The most likely outcome is that they'll just suspend your account. What you don't want happening is them taking money from you before you're even aware what is happening because that way you won't get it back and there's no room for negotiation.

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