The post seems to claim that there is no drawbacks others approach with the 0 bytes of js, and link to a blog post [1] that absolutely tells nothing how to properly manage back/front state and rendering consistency between the rendering and the «islands» on the client.
Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno
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Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno
#62Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno
#63I really like the idea of Deno and Fresh's philosophy also resonates with me (I'm a Rails guy). I would like to see an integrated ORM (can be an existing one) and testing framework though, before I would consider it a "full-stack" web framework.
The JS ecosystem seems a lot more hesitant to bundle features into frameworks à la Rails/Laravel & friends, but Redwood.js sounds like what you're looking for. The ORM it uses is Prisma, which works really well on its own too.
Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno
#64Maybe I am getting all wrong, but this sounds like PHP.
I'm excited for server-side rendering to return to the mainstream so that in a few years I can revolutionize the industry with my ingenious new idea to render things on the client with Javascript!
Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno
#65Maybe I am getting all wrong, but this sounds like PHP.
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Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno
#66Am I the only one that think nowadays anything can be called "full stack"? For me "full stack" is something like Rails, Laravel, Django, etc. Or is it just being able to run code on the server enough to be "full stack"? I'm missing the translations system, the validations, the background jobs, the authentication system, authorization helpers, email sending, ORM or data access layer, testing framework, CSRF and relate…
I've always heard it in the context of "front-end" vs "back-end" vs "full-stack (both)"
Normally it's used this way to describe a job, but that meaning has circled around and is now used to describe libraries/frameworks too
Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno
#67This can be the killer app that Deno needs. As of now there is no specific reason for most of the people to try Deno as Node with its plethora of frameworks works and every one can choose their stack as per their taste. But if they can make Fresh sufficiently better (more cohesive and/or performant on both client and server side) and more feature rich on the backend (ORM + Workers/Queuing) with instant deploy then more people might consider switching.
Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno
#68Am I the only one that think nowadays anything can be called "full stack"? For me "full stack" is something like Rails, Laravel, Django, etc. Or is it just being able to run code on the server enough to be "full stack"? I'm missing the translations system, the validations, the background jobs, the authentication system, authorization helpers, email sending, ORM or data access layer, testing framework, CSRF and relate…
> For me "full stack" is something like Rails, Laravel, Django, etc. Aren't those back-end frameworks? I always undestood full-stack to mean "front-end + back-end".
They're "full stack in the sense that you can render templates and manages static/media files. Back when we only had websites, this was fully full stack for sure.
Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno
#69Is there any company that is hiring that uses fresh or deno in production?
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deno has been around for a little while, i think some commentators may have taken your responses as satirical because of how often deno shows up in conversations surrounding the web platform. think of deno as a node.js successor, it's a separate javascript runtime; with that, it'll need to compete with node's ecosystem (vast and diverse tooling). the deno company is spearheading that movement by creating things like Deno Deploy and now Fresh. i believe the gist of it is that people were excited about the concepts Deno had been brewing up, and now they're building things that will allow people to actually make use of deno.
so, many people will look at this and say 'how is this different from ___?' and the reality is that for the most part, it's not. that's the point. you're making use of deno to do the same thing you did with node, and hopefully it's a little bit easier and/or more developer friendly.
also fwiw, deno is not really yc-affiliated; the company is backed by Sequoia, Four Rivers Ventures, Rauch Capital, Long Journey Ventures, the Mozilla Corporation, Shasta Ventures, and i think some other angel investors like Nat Friedman (former GitHub CEO).
Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno
#70Am I the only one that think nowadays anything can be called "full stack"? For me "full stack" is something like Rails, Laravel, Django, etc. Or is it just being able to run code on the server enough to be "full stack"? I'm missing the translations system, the validations, the background jobs, the authentication system, authorization helpers, email sending, ORM or data access layer, testing framework, CSRF and relate…
I agree, this is becoming really confusing! And then also "center-stack" which I heard somewhere recently re one of the frontend frameworks.
When I hear of a full-stack framework (in a modern setting), I think of stuff like Meteor, Redwood, and Wasp-lang (disclaimer: I am one of the authors of that one). RoR also always comes to mind, although it's more commonly used as an API server nowadays.