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Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno

deno.com

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Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno

#31

Post by likortera »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #28
likortera wrote: post #21

Am I the only one that think nowadays anything can be called "full stack"? For me "full stack" is something like Rails, Laravel, Django, etc. Or is it just being able to run code on the server enough to be "full stack"? I'm missing the translations system, the validations, the background jobs, the authentication system, authorization helpers, email sending, ORM or data access layer, testing framework, CSRF and relate…

I personally believe full-stack is fuzzy, because what if we also provided a UI layer, or a payment interface framework, or a notification handling system, or similar as part of the "full stack" system? It's hard to draw a line as to where something becomes "full stack." However... it's definitely closer to what I want "full stack" to mean than... this. Or a pile of bash scripts.

well, I agree.... but to me the baseline is, as I said, Rails/Laravel/Django... there's a common subset of things you need in like 99% of web applications that are not just a rest API or a landing page.

Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno

#32

Post by leeoniya »

ketzo wrote: post #26
leeoniya wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 100ms added latency can cost you 7-8% in conversions i hear this metric (or something equally absurd) cited frequently and have never seen it to be true in my own experience. i guess if you have to load a product page with 100 images (or assets) and each has 100ms network latency, then it will add up to much more than that. but 100ms for a single interaction or network request (e.g. process payment POST) is not goi…

I think that particular metric (or one very like it) was originally about… Amazon.com. So, y’know, maybe a slightly different ballgame.

maybe there was more nuance to that statement, but i never bought it at face value, even then.

Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno

#33

Post by peterangular »

likortera wrote: post #21

Am I the only one that think nowadays anything can be called "full stack"? For me "full stack" is something like Rails, Laravel, Django, etc. Or is it just being able to run code on the server enough to be "full stack"? I'm missing the translations system, the validations, the background jobs, the authentication system, authorization helpers, email sending, ORM or data access layer, testing framework, CSRF and relate…

Node/JS solutions typically don't come "batteries included." "Fullstack" means different things depending on the ecosystem and for Node devs it means "hey there's a solution for the front-end and back-end."

Totally understand about Django, Laravel etc. but typically if I'm building in Node/JS I'm pulling all of that extra stuff in from npm piecing it together myself.

Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno

#34

Post by [deleted] »

choward wrote: post #29
upupandup wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't DENO just AWS Lambda@Edge but you can't use anything other than JS/TS? edit: whoa whats with these downvotes? and im being accused of being a troll for asking a legitimate question? I am trying to evaluate this and my comments are being flagged for no reason Dang This is the second or third time just asking innocent questions on a YC linked company resulted in mass downvotes and flagging.

Quoted post unavailable.

[deleted]

Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno

#35

Post by jacktheturtle »

likortera wrote: post #21

Am I the only one that think nowadays anything can be called "full stack"? For me "full stack" is something like Rails, Laravel, Django, etc. Or is it just being able to run code on the server enough to be "full stack"? I'm missing the translations system, the validations, the background jobs, the authentication system, authorization helpers, email sending, ORM or data access layer, testing framework, CSRF and relate…

I agree. I see technologies like Next, Remix, etc claiming to be full stack, but it doesn't "feel" full stack to me. They have offerings like backend functions, which is really just an HTTP response.

But, when I think of a "all in one" / "full stack" langauge, there needs to be an existing ORM inside the framework. That works across the View/Communication/Model.

These frameworks have you needing other tools to do this.

Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno

#36

Post by likortera »

ssddanbrown wrote: post #30
likortera wrote: post #21

Am I the only one that think nowadays anything can be called "full stack"? For me "full stack" is something like Rails, Laravel, Django, etc. Or is it just being able to run code on the server enough to be "full stack"? I'm missing the translations system, the validations, the background jobs, the authentication system, authorization helpers, email sending, ORM or data access layer, testing framework, CSRF and relate…

> Or is it just being able to run code on the server enough to be "full stack"? To me, "full stack" would entail having responsibility for logic on both the front-end and back-end, which Fresh does. Personally, I would not consider Laravel a full stack framework (Although it can work well with front-end frameworks to make a full-stack application). Instead I'd consider it a back-end framework.

In the case of laravel, I think that having by default a pretty awesome templating system (which even allows for components), a webpack based build system for frontend assets, easy way to serve, cache and bust assets, and a trivially easy way to submit forms and validate user input makes it pretty full stack. Same for Rails, and not event talking about HotWire/LiveWire with might not be considered parts of the framework per se.

To me Laravels is pretty more close to a "full stack" framework than Fresh to be honest.

Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno

#40

Post by likortera »

peterangular wrote: post #33
likortera wrote: post #21

Am I the only one that think nowadays anything can be called "full stack"? For me "full stack" is something like Rails, Laravel, Django, etc. Or is it just being able to run code on the server enough to be "full stack"? I'm missing the translations system, the validations, the background jobs, the authentication system, authorization helpers, email sending, ORM or data access layer, testing framework, CSRF and relate…

Node/JS solutions typically don't come "batteries included." "Fullstack" means different things depending on the ecosystem and for Node devs it means "hey there's a solution for the front-end and back-end." Totally understand about Django, Laravel etc. but typically if I'm building in Node/JS I'm pulling all of that extra stuff in from npm piecing it together myself.

Yeah, I do the same. Most of what I do is Next.js + a good bunch of npm packages to get the "full stack". But I wouldn't call Next.js full stack because it can do SSR, or even API routes. But again, that's just me confused about what is "full stack".
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