Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data • Hacker News Board

Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data

#71

Post by deepsquirrelnet » Tue, Jun 28, 2022, 2:36 PM UTC

xutopia wrote: post #48

Does anyone actually address how religion is a big factor at play here? It's skipped over every time but this is very much a religious war happening here. The Catholics in the Supreme Court are overturning human rights because it goes against the recent dogmas their faith prescribed them to believe.

Isn’t it interesting how it’s not even a popular Catholic point of view? [1]

It seems that the path of money is from laity to church to dark money group(?) to political campaigns for judges or buying support for judge’s confirmations. However it happens, people should know their tithes are being used against them.

[1] https://www.ncronline.org/news/68-us-catholics-say-roe-shoul...

Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data

#72

Post by gjsman-1000 » Tue, Jun 28, 2022, 2:36 PM UTC

weberer wrote: post #69

xutopia wrote: post #48

Does anyone actually address how religion is a big factor at play here? It's skipped over every time but this is very much a religious war happening here. The Catholics in the Supreme Court are overturning human rights because it goes against the recent dogmas their faith prescribed them to believe.

That sounds like a conspiracy theory. Even atheists and pro-abortion people have been complaining that the ruling in Roe vs Wade was a huge stretch. At the end of the day, its not a constitutional issue. So either amend the constitution or leave the decision up to the states.

Ruth Bader Ginsburg loved abortion, but thought Roe v Wade was a trash decision that actually risked being thrown out for how sloppy it was. She was right.

Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data

#73

Post by prpl » Tue, Jun 28, 2022, 2:36 PM UTC

vardump wrote: post #46

parkingrift wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this completely ignores the moral issues of later term abortions. I am an atheist, and I am disturbed by the idea of a voluntary abortion after 20 weeks. Voluntary meaning no medical necessity. I think Republicans have latched onto this issue and Christianity in America has adopted it, but there is far more at play here than just Christian nationalism.

I'm pro-choice. That said, after 20 weeks one really needs to consider that the fetus can feel pain .

I am also pro-choice - I have thought the viability standard was always going to be a moving target thanks to medical and technological advances that could topple at some point too - even if you defined it as something like NNth percentile.

It does seem to me that setting an arbitrary (but flexible) point of no return was going to be necessary (probably around 18-24 weeks)

Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data

#74

Post by welshwelsh » Tue, Jun 28, 2022, 2:36 PM UTC

luxuryballs wrote: post #30

bbarn wrote: post #4

A former girlfriend of mine went to what she thought was a clinic, and was effectively scared out of having one, and had twins at 18. These scummy tactics work, or people wouldn't do them.

Quoted post unavailable.

It's not killing someone. A fetus isn't a person.

> I can’t imagine anything LESS scummy than helping save the lives of those babies who are now likely very glad they were born

So would it be ethical to rape someone and force them to give birth? Because the babies would be happy to be born and experiencing life? That's the same logic you're using.

A fetus isn't a person. It's not sentient. It doesn't have hopes and dreams. Personally, I feel guiltier eating pork than having an abortion. Because unlike a fetus, pigs are highly intelligent, social and emotional beings.

On the other hand, a woman is a person. She has the right to control her own body and her own life. If she doesn't want children, she should not be forced to have children. Even if she has sex! Yes, I know that's radical, but I believe that women should be able to have as much sex as they want, with whoever they want, even outside of marriage, without being punished with unwanted children.

I know, and I'm sure you know, that's the real issue. Lots of people are uncomfortable with the concept of consequence-free sex. Christianity, the largest religion in the western world, teaches that sex outside of marriage is wrong. That's why so many people who are against abortion "just happen" to be socially conservative. That's why they "just happen" to be against LGBT as well even though that has fuck-all to do with 'saving babies.' That's why they oppose comprehensive sex education and birth control access, even though that's the most obvious way to reduce unplanned pregnancies.

Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data

#75

Post by tablespoon » Tue, Jun 28, 2022, 2:37 PM UTC

CoffeeOnWrite wrote: post #38

luxuryballs wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

The comment you’re replying to describes a bait and switch “counseling clinic”. Cf. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/pregnancy-clinics-... The moderate pro-life crowd should see this behavior as scummy and denounce it, as it taints their cause. IE take the high road to attaining their goals. Those in support of this behavior, have more deep ethical challenges, and I sincerely hope and believe are not the maj…

> The moderate pro-life crowd should see this behavior as scummy and denounce it, as it taints their cause. IE take the high road to attaining their goals.

Why? To someone who thinks abortion is the murder of babies, what you advocate is priority inversion error. Your idea is a lot like saying the police in Uvalde shouldn't have gone in and (eventually) shot the school shooter, rather they should have "take[n] the high road to attaining their goals" and just talked to him until he stopped of his own accord.

Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data

#76

Post by comrh » Tue, Jun 28, 2022, 2:37 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #40

heretogetout wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a wedge issue where neither side will give any ground, which makes it exploitable. If you figure out a way to tie a wedge issue to the rest of your political platform you're virtually guaranteed support from one side or another. IMO one side has been much, much better at exploiting this fact and has has achieved great power despite representing less than a plurality of voters.

It’s a divisive issue because it represents fundamentally different world views. As an asian, the idea that the government can’t regulate abortion, which is prevalent among a large minority of Democrats these days, is remarkable. Even if abortion was a moral issue, and not about preserving human life, nothing precludes states from legislating morality. It’s illustrative to compare to Japan or Germany, which have “lib…

> Republicans won a majority of the Congressional popular vote in 2016

And then lost the popular vote in 2018 and 2020. Not sure why 2016 would be particularly relevant

Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data

#77

Post by gjsman-1000 » Tue, Jun 28, 2022, 2:37 PM UTC

deepsquirrelnet wrote: post #71

xutopia wrote: post #48

Does anyone actually address how religion is a big factor at play here? It's skipped over every time but this is very much a religious war happening here. The Catholics in the Supreme Court are overturning human rights because it goes against the recent dogmas their faith prescribed them to believe.

Isn’t it interesting how it’s not even a popular Catholic point of view? [1] It seems that the path of money is from laity to church to dark money group(?) to political campaigns for judges or buying support for judge’s confirmations. However it happens, people should know their tithes are being used against them. [1] https://www.ncronline.org/news/68-us-catholics-say-roe-shoul...

National Catholic Reporter was actually denounced and ordered by bishops almost 50 years ago to stop using "Catholic" in its name for its heterodox views and viewpoint. They refused because Catholic is not a trademark and the bishops could not enforce it, but one should not view them as a source of faithful Catholic news of any kind. It is not uncommon for priests to refer to them as the National Schismatic Reporter.

Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data

#78

Post by triceratops » Tue, Jun 28, 2022, 2:37 PM UTC

cloutchaser wrote: post #34

beardyw wrote: post #12

I find this whole thing so puzzling. In the UK, not so different from the USA, this is not really a thing at all. Even amongst Christians I have never heard it brought up. Is it a political thing, and if so how did it become so?

Even Ruth Bader Ginsberg argued roe v wade was a mistake because it placed abortion rights into constitutional law rather than letting democratic institutions decide an issue like this. The reason it’s not an issue in Europe is because opposing sides all get a say in this and arrive at a compromise, namely abortion allowed up to 12 weeks which is fairly standard in most European countries. But because row v wade basi…

> And why not have stricter laws in more Christian states?

The 1st and 14th Amendments of the constitution, for starters.

Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data

#79

Post by malfist » Tue, Jun 28, 2022, 2:37 PM UTC

lukas099 wrote: post #36

luxuryballs wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> I can’t imagine anything LESS scummy than helping save the lives of those babies who are now likely very glad they were born By the same token, wouldn't it be unethical to not have as many kids as possible all the time? After all, those kids will be glad that they were born.

Let's take it a step further. Shouldn't women be broodmares for the state, producing as many children as possible since all those kids will be glad that they were born. Their sacrifice during their childbearing years is worth it for the utilitarian benefit of more happy children.

This is obviously not a serious suggestion, just calling into question the right of unborn children to have claims of an adult (or sometimes non-adult) woman.

Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data

#80

Post by tedajax » Tue, Jun 28, 2022, 2:38 PM UTC

luxuryballs wrote: post #30

bbarn wrote: post #4

A former girlfriend of mine went to what she thought was a clinic, and was effectively scared out of having one, and had twins at 18. These scummy tactics work, or people wouldn't do them.

Quoted post unavailable.

No post body was provided.