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Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data

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Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data

#61

Post by Spoom »

I bet these places will start to threaten folks now that their state likely lets them.

"Well, now that we have your data, we'll track you since births are public knowledge. If we don't see a birth, we'll turn it over to the police, and make your identity public (no private medical data needed, just that we have reason to believe you had an abortion) so that anyone in a state with a Texas-style law can sue you for $10,000 apiece, making your losses unlimited. Are you sure you want that abortion now?"

Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data

#62

Post by gruez »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #42
parkingrift wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this completely ignores the moral issues of later term abortions. I am an atheist, and I am disturbed by the idea of a voluntary abortion after 20 weeks. Voluntary meaning no medical necessity. I think Republicans have latched onto this issue and Christianity in America has adopted it, but there is far more at play here than just Christian nationalism.

What issue? What are the numbers on non medical necessity abortions post 20 weeks? Why 20 weeks? Are the voting populace or politicians knowledgeable enough about pregnancy to be able to legislate these things without exposing doctors and women to unnecessary legal risk? And again, back to the numbers, does the is even need legislating? Are women or doctors haphazardly running around killing perfectly viable fetuses…

> And again, back to the numbers, does the is even need legislating? Are women or doctors haphazardly running around killing perfectly viable fetuses for fun?

You realize that there are limits to voluntary abortions basically everywhere? Not having a limit is largely an american phenomenon. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Abortion_Laws.svg

Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data

#63

Post by red_admiral »

beardyw wrote: post #12

I find this whole thing so puzzling. In the UK, not so different from the USA, this is not really a thing at all. Even amongst Christians I have never heard it brought up. Is it a political thing, and if so how did it become so?

In the UK, the largest Christian denomination is the Church of England, with Her Majesty as the figurehead - and while they oppose abortion, their stance is [1] "The Church of England's stated position combines principled opposition with a recognition that there can be strictly limited conditions under which abortion may be morally preferable to any available alternative. "

I assume that being an Established Church makes a difference too. We don't do separation of church and state the same way over here, after all that was one of the things the newly independent states of America decided to make very clear they were going to do differently from Britain, so the UK and USA are very different in this regard.

[1] https://www.churchofengland.org/news-and-media/news-and-stat... (2019)

Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data

#64

Post by Victerius »

jonhohle wrote: post #37
Victerius wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Earlier times did not have lightning fast communications and global online tracking tools. The conservative crusade against abortion is also a recent phenomenon, historically speaking. Benjamin Franklin gave instructions on at-home abortions in a book in the 1700s [1]. And the ancient Romans used a plant called silphium for birth control, to a point where the plant went extinct. [2] [1] https://www.npr.org/2022/05/18…

Alternatively, you could say we are progressing to understand that outdated concepts like viability have no scientific basis and human rights should be extended to all humans, even those in early developmental phases. The idea that some humans can be killed because they are “less” is a very primitive and prejudicial idea.

We already deprive entire categories of humans of human rights: minors. And that's just fine. Minors can't vote or exercise many rights that adults can.

I see no problem with depriving fetuses of all human rights.

A pregnancy may not be viable. That's just a fact. A fetus can die inside the womb. Miscarriages happen.

There is also this post on the nursing subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/vm3cau/many_lives_...

"We had a woman with an ectopic walk in at 11:30 pm last night. We had to basically sit on her until the doc could speak with a lawyer. Her ectopic ruptured. She then did not get her procedure done for another 9 hours bc the doc was working with the lawyer for so long trying to work around the laws and not lose his license. By the time she had her procedure she had over 600cc of blood in her abdomen. She almost died."

I cannot imagine myself letting a woman die through no fault of her own because of an abstract principle.

Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data

#65

Post by antifa »

parkingrift wrote: post #33
jef_leppard wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO because the christian nationalist wing of the Republican Party needs talking points.

I think this completely ignores the moral issues of later term abortions. I am an atheist, and I am disturbed by the idea of a voluntary abortion after 20 weeks. Voluntary meaning no medical necessity. I think Republicans have latched onto this issue and Christianity in America has adopted it, but there is far more at play here than just Christian nationalism.

> I am disturbed by the idea of a voluntary abortion after 20 weeks

I am also disturbed by strawman hypothetical edgecases.

Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data

#66

Post by jonhohle »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #42
parkingrift wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this completely ignores the moral issues of later term abortions. I am an atheist, and I am disturbed by the idea of a voluntary abortion after 20 weeks. Voluntary meaning no medical necessity. I think Republicans have latched onto this issue and Christianity in America has adopted it, but there is far more at play here than just Christian nationalism.

What issue? What are the numbers on non medical necessity abortions post 20 weeks? Why 20 weeks? Are the voting populace or politicians knowledgeable enough about pregnancy to be able to legislate these things without exposing doctors and women to unnecessary legal risk? And again, back to the numbers, does the is even need legislating? Are women or doctors haphazardly running around killing perfectly viable fetuses…

There are over a million abortions performed every year in the US. If your belief is that these are humans with all the rights of any other human, that’s a staggering human rights issue.

The concept of viability is legal fiction. Given the technology, there’s no reason a fetus couldn’t live at any stage of development and likewise, until about age 3 or so, no child will live without external support. Culturally, we celebrate “birth”, but that event has nothing to do with life.

On the other end is the necessity to support the life of a mother. While unfortunate, I think that’s a rare time that terminating a pregnancy is appropriate. That doesn’t mean lifestyle or convenience, though. That’s situations where only one or fewer people will make it alive if nothing is done. This represents a fraction of one percent of abortions. Other abuses may fall into this category.

Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data

#67

Post by LatteLazy »

ghufran_syed wrote: post #39
lotsofpulp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There certainly is logic to guaranteeing women healthcare (abortion choice) during their pregnancy.

Quoted post unavailable.

No fetus has ever objected to anything...

Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data

#68

Post by d--b »

beardyw wrote: post #12

I find this whole thing so puzzling. In the UK, not so different from the USA, this is not really a thing at all. Even amongst Christians I have never heard it brought up. Is it a political thing, and if so how did it become so?

The other comments are wrong.

The USA is very different from the UK because of puritans.

American Christians are much more puritan than Brits (this is true for abortion, but also for tee-totaller movements, and other things)

A lot of American Christians are anti abortion, for the simple yet totally valid reason that they truly believe that embryos are human lives, and that as such they shouldn't be "murdered".

The question of the threshold is central here. Noone in their right mind is pro abortion past 30 weeks of pregnancy. Similarly, no one is really against the morning-after pill.

This issue has been whipped up by the right wing, but they did it IN ORDER TO get more voters (who deeply cared about that issue), and not the other way around.

Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data

#69

Post by weberer »

xutopia wrote: post #48

Does anyone actually address how religion is a big factor at play here? It's skipped over every time but this is very much a religious war happening here. The Catholics in the Supreme Court are overturning human rights because it goes against the recent dogmas their faith prescribed them to believe.

That sounds like a conspiracy theory. Even atheists and pro-abortion people have been complaining that the ruling in Roe vs Wade was a huge stretch. At the end of the day, its not a constitutional issue. So either amend the constitution or leave the decision up to the states.

Re: Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data

#70

Post by esyir »

somehnguy wrote: post #47
rayiner wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s because the Supreme Court has imposed for 50 years an extremely liberal abortion regime on an extremely conservative country. Roe guarantees elective abortions up to viability, which is around 22-24 weeks. But by 13-14 weeks, the fetus looks like a baby—it has hands and feet and a face. It can suck its thumb and kick. Most of Europe draws a line for elective abortions (absent exceptions) around that timeframe: h…

Sounds like nonsense. Can you explain how it was ‘imposing a regime’, when nobody was forced to do anything? If you didn’t want an abortion you just…didn’t have one. Kinda sounds like religious people are the ones actually trying to impose a regime to me. Because I couldn’t possibly care less what anyones preferred god thinks, yet religious beliefs are being used to drive political changes that affect everyone.

From their perspective, it's more analogous to murder. Not exactly something you just live and let be.
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