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Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

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Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understand this argument. "The Houthi say "death to America," something they clearly state is an attack on US imperialist policies, so why should we feel bad about slaughtering them and the thousands of unrelated civilians?"

That’s literally addressing only three words from my argument into a straw man caricature. Try the whole thing in good faith.

OK, there's nothing wrong with disliking Israel or liking your religion, and "cursed be the Jews" is racist. No one is advocating bombing/blockading other political groups with racist ideas though.

Plus, it addressed the most important word "slogan." Saying terrible things isn't justification for what we've done to Yemen. The argument has no legs without needing to further turn it into a straw man.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#102
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> new and unexpected. So on a South Tower flight, supposing I weren't a child at the time and were the man I am now, like you know the time of day, you know they're flying north, you know they're not turning the plane around to Cuba, which is what the itinerary looks like but like but it's not exactly it. And thirty minutes is an eternity for that. So the key is flashing on the truth, so there's like a couple times i…

Have a look at the list of hijackings[1]. I count 149 hijackings between 1960 and 9/11, and about 10 that were "mass casualty events" where more than the hijackers and 5 passengers or airline staff were killed. It seems at least 2 of the mass casualty events were accidents by the hijackers (bombs went off probably accidentally). I understand your impulse to act, but the math is pretty clear - before 9/11 you were bet…

So I divine the hijackers asked their leader, Osama bin Laden, personally, what happens if an intercessor impedes our martyrdom on the plane? And everyone in the camp kind of twitched when they heard that. They thought of that, feared it. Nobody can memorize the Koran enough to deal with that.

Because then they punish--we're talking punish--the captured terrorists by the standards of the harm of the other tower, which--it's the Twin Towers, they're pretty much the same, it's morally the same, and the terrorists treated them the same. So then when those guys had went to Guantanamo--maximum maximum security--where they belonged--and were retaliated against in life according to the suffering of the victims of the other tower--like that fucks the whole plot. They were at their peak of Muslim devotion, they could only go down from there. They really believed in that afterlife, like if you wake up with a migraine and that migraine never goes away, like...no, I think they'd rather not be terrorists. A thousand powerful, rich would-be 9/11 victims--half of them--would hate their guts forever. Like the people that barely missed the flight. No CNN archeological evidence of fucking anything revising history no "history channel" nothing in any way could protect them from the equivalent punishment. No body doubles. Eye for an eye. A million people's suffering basically, not only the direct deaths but the threat and the power they wished to derive from that threat, the million not the thousand, that is the sunlight focussed on them with a magnifying glass, they are the ant under the glare of a million people's suffering (that's roughly a million to one in fact). No visits, not because nobody was allowed, but because nobody would dare associate with them. And they would cave to the torment, these were really privileged Saudi civil engineers, good degrees good background, beyond their eg memorizing the Koran they were soft. They weren't prepared for justice. Death yes. Punishment no.

And that's why everyone at the camp twitched.

But Osama said it wouldn't happen. Privately prayed for that.

And sure enough, it didn't. America let him predict the future, by discriminating against people just like me, like the endless bots calling me a bot, or saying I'm a monster. Those accusations together disprove each other. So like bots can detect when someone is not a bot--there's those adversarial neural nets that struggle against each other, and when they detect what they can detect, or a human does it for them, when something is too hardcore they call me a bot to plagiarize my answer. Then it's racism accusation, rapism accusation, white supremacist accusation, for blacks it's "playing the race card" accusation, women they call sluts in different ways, they have comedians ready to go too, they have insults for everybody. But never going to court, never fucking going to court, no Judges of the Court, only producers, the judges of public opinion. On this same thread, some nobody with no name and no face called me a GPT-3 bot.

I'd love to be a bot.

Terminator on North Tower flight.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#103
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> new and unexpected. So on a South Tower flight, supposing I weren't a child at the time and were the man I am now, like you know the time of day, you know they're flying north, you know they're not turning the plane around to Cuba, which is what the itinerary looks like but like but it's not exactly it. And thirty minutes is an eternity for that. So the key is flashing on the truth, so there's like a couple times i…

You said you were a child at the time so I think it’s hard to understand the world before you. Everyone expected a hacked plane would land you the passengers would most likely be safe. From everything the passengers on the first plane knew the best way to survive was to do nothing.

Dude before me there was Clint Eastwood. We exist, we're real. Just the number-one threat on the radar, the internal threat of Christian dignity and just NOT TAKING SHIT. So except for the Law, the Bible, the Churches, the Courts, some parts of the USG, the Police, the sailors, the women (in a courtship capacity not in a bureaucratic capacity) and to some extent the children, I am universally hated by all American society, all of it.

America took a lot of shit on 9/11.

It could have taken half.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#104
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There seems to be some disconnect with $somesuddenlyeuropeancountry as we aren't doing the bombing, we're merely supplying the bombs and planning the bombing. It's not our fault that the $somesuddenlyeuropeancountry's are dropping US bombs on US targets. LOL EDIT: and with M777 and HIMARS it's quite literal US bombs.

Yet, not genocide. Unless targeting invading Russian tanks and warships counts as trying to eliminate Russians in general.

Yeah, exactly. Compare the civilian losses in these two conflicts and remember who is running around with 'genocide'.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s literally addressing only three words from my argument into a straw man caricature. Try the whole thing in good faith.

OK, there's nothing wrong with disliking Israel or liking your religion, and "cursed be the Jews" is racist. No one is advocating bombing/blockading other political groups with racist ideas though. Plus, it addressed the most important word "slogan." Saying terrible things isn't justification for what we've done to Yemen. The argument has no legs without needing to further turn it into a straw man.

You admit they’re a racist group and then say my “argument has no legs” while failing to address the crux of the issue. Yemeni civil war is started by Houthi attacks on the Government of Yemen. Immense casualties on both sides with civilians caught in crossfire. Iran supporting Houthi rebels undemocratically coup’ing the Yemeni Government. Saudi supporting existing Yemeni government. Do you honestly propose the government just lay down everything and let Houthi takeover as another Taliban?

Fwiw, I still believe in withdrawing US arms and intelligence support for Saudi Arabia. I just am frustrated at always seeing these one-sided takes of the Yemeni Civil War like the Houthis aren’t an equal participant of the crap going on there. An obviously shit situation with no easy answers because of the slimy regional powers.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#106
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What leverage exactly? Consider a major split between SA and US. Who do you think would come out worse off?

I don't understand the questions. You can't see how knowing of a SA conspiracy against the US is leverage? Edit: Things you could do: - Increase cultural pressure within US SA community - Increase cultural pressure within US arab community - Tell SA you are wondering what Israel thinks about this - Incentivize new cultural narratives (film, books, etc) and redirect special funding to think tanks - Create a long-term…

What incentive does the US have to decrease SA power and stability, considering that they one of US's strongest partners in the region? All of the things you list seem like a negative outcome for the US.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't Putin.

What's going on in Yemen is pretty similar to what's going on in ukraine right now. And the KSA also has a putin-like tendency of sending death squads to murder international opposition. The only reason why they seem to not be as bad for westerners is because middle eastern lives are given almost 0 value here in the west. So you'll always get some hand wavy rationalisation to justify not doing anything about the KSA,…

My terse one-liner was obviously not implying Saudi Arabia is a nation of saints or even better than Russia in any regard.

One argument one can make is that the situation in Ukraine is worse from a European perspective because it is so much closer and the economic and political ties are much tighter.

The Trump administration "fully supported" KSA, Biden does not btw.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, there's nothing wrong with disliking Israel or liking your religion, and "cursed be the Jews" is racist. No one is advocating bombing/blockading other political groups with racist ideas though. Plus, it addressed the most important word "slogan." Saying terrible things isn't justification for what we've done to Yemen. The argument has no legs without needing to further turn it into a straw man.

You admit they’re a racist group and then say my “argument has no legs” while failing to address the crux of the issue. Yemeni civil war is started by Houthi attacks on the Government of Yemen. Immense casualties on both sides with civilians caught in crossfire. Iran supporting Houthi rebels undemocratically coup’ing the Yemeni Government. Saudi supporting existing Yemeni government. Do you honestly propose the gover…

Israel is not a race. (No, the Nazis don't get to decide that.) Genetically, the patriarchy of Israel were closer to present-day Palestinians than to anybody else.

We don't get a say on Houthi. "We" do get a say on use of US intelligence details to target civilians.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's going on in Yemen is pretty similar to what's going on in ukraine right now. And the KSA also has a putin-like tendency of sending death squads to murder international opposition. The only reason why they seem to not be as bad for westerners is because middle eastern lives are given almost 0 value here in the west. So you'll always get some hand wavy rationalisation to justify not doing anything about the KSA,…

My terse one-liner was obviously not implying Saudi Arabia is a nation of saints or even better than Russia in any regard. One argument one can make is that the situation in Ukraine is worse from a European perspective because it is so much closer and the economic and political ties are much tighter. The Trump administration "fully supported" KSA, Biden does not btw.

Yeah again sorry about my rant! Id say that me being a muslim from the MENA region is probably why I care as much, just like europeans care more about ukraine. The issue is when that (geographic?) biais is not acknowledged, so we get tons of downplaying or people arguing that it's actually just not as bad. Again, that's more of a observation on the thread in general ,not aimed at your comment in particular!

Though I'd dispute your last point, Biden hasn't done anything against the KSA and the status quo just means a (+-) continuation of trump's policy. We will probably even see the Biden administration placating the saudis to keep gas prices in check, and hurt the russians. Which to me is absurd/Self defeating and would just signal that again, some lives are worth more than others.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, there's nothing wrong with disliking Israel or liking your religion, and "cursed be the Jews" is racist. No one is advocating bombing/blockading other political groups with racist ideas though. Plus, it addressed the most important word "slogan." Saying terrible things isn't justification for what we've done to Yemen. The argument has no legs without needing to further turn it into a straw man.

You admit they’re a racist group and then say my “argument has no legs” while failing to address the crux of the issue. Yemeni civil war is started by Houthi attacks on the Government of Yemen. Immense casualties on both sides with civilians caught in crossfire. Iran supporting Houthi rebels undemocratically coup’ing the Yemeni Government. Saudi supporting existing Yemeni government. Do you honestly propose the gover…

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