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Why hasn't Middle Earth had an Industrial Revolution?

featherlessbipeds.substack.com

61–70 of 428 posts

Re: Why hasn't Middle Earth had an Industrial Revolution?

#61
When I saw the equation for labor factor of

LaborSupply x LaborProductivity / CostOfCoal

I couldn't help but think of modern robotics and industrial automation as

LaborSupply x LaborProductivity / CostOfSoftware

Given the extreme cost of software development, and the diminishing cost of labor due to globalization - it's no wonder we don't have robots everywhere. It will be curious if the current wage spike leads to increased automation.

Re: Why hasn't Middle Earth had an Industrial Revolution?

#62
Interesting read. This caught my attention:

> Middle Earth is framed, explicitly, as an account of the history of our world. That is, the world of the Lord of the Rings is one and the same as our world, just at a very different point in its history. Thus, while Middle Earth may possess resources that we do not, such as Mithril, unless the resources of our world were deposited later, they must have been available to the people of Middle Earth.

I think this is a common mistake when analyzing Tolkien's work. His universe isn't meant to be the history of Earth, it's supposed to be an origin myth of England. With all the caveats that go with similar origin myths. To quote the letter that prefaces The Silmarillion:

> I was from early days grieved by the poverty of my own beloved country: it had no stories of its own (bound up with its tongue and soil), not of the quality that I sought, and found (as an ingredient) in legends of other lands.

Why hasn't the world of LoTR had an industrial revolution? Well for the same reason Troy didn't. Because if it did, it wouldn't be an origin myth. It's no more reasonable to discount the worldbuilding of Tolkien for incongruences with history than it is to discount the "worldbuilding" of Homer.

Re: Why hasn't Middle Earth had an Industrial Revolution?

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, the industrialists are literally right there in the form of Saruman and the Orcs of Isengard: "Together, my lord Sauron, we shall rule this Middle-earth. The old world will burn in the fires of industry. Forests will fall. A new order will rise. We will drive the machine of war with the sword and the spear and the iron fist of the orc." The orcs could be looked at as an allegory of the faceless, dehumanized, i…

Paul Kingsnorth has some wonderful essays exploring this exact concept.

This old game explores industrialized fantasy as well:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcanum:_Of_Steamworks_and_M...

Re: Why hasn't Middle Earth had an Industrial Revolution?

#64
post #57

From https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v21/n21/francis-spufford/ope... : It was around this time that an encounter took place between two outlooks almost equally marginal to the spirit of the times in Britain. Arthur C. Clarke, by now a well-established science fiction writer as well as the author of the pioneering paper on satellite communications, had been growing increasingly irritated by the theological science fic…

Instruments transform possibilities insofar as they required a transformation of possibilities and a transformation of the mind to come about. And the profit with which they do so determines their worth.

Re: Why hasn't Middle Earth had an Industrial Revolution?

#66
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea if Tolkein loved or hated industry, but simply living in a city doesn't suddenly make you an industrialist as much as living in a village doesn't make you a farmer. If anything, living in the city gives you an excellent perspective on the effects of industrialization, form ones own opinions from there.

Also, there were cities before industrialization. Can’t remember the names of any right now… but I pretty sure there were a few.

Pretty sure that's most capital cities in europe. E.g. London, Rome

Re: Why hasn't Middle Earth had an Industrial Revolution?

#67

Ok, I stopped reading about 1/2 way though, because middle earth didn't need an industrial revolution because they were all hippie communities living close to nature and they didn't need one be because they had magic distracting them and solving their most pressing problems. Need a clean house, just study to make a magic broom, or buy one in the magic shop. Need to get somewhere fast, take an eagle, etc. Why waste yo…

Most of the characters did not have magic. Gandalf had magic, but he was also basically an angel sent from heaven to guide middle earth. Its not like he was a normal inhabitant

Re: Why hasn't Middle Earth had an Industrial Revolution?

#68
Something not mentioned in the article: Middle Earth is depopulated. Without large market, it does not make sense to produce at scale, nor you will have the capital to do it.

The main characters travel hundreds of kilometers down the biggest river around and they don't encounter other vessels or a populated settlement until they reach Minas Tirith. And I'm not even mentioning the missing cities and villages in the inland part of the travel. We can say that this is due to lower birth rate in the numenorians who obviously have reproductive issues as mentioned in the books. Another reason is the brain, knowledge and capital drain caused by the large elvian immigration going for centuries. Dwarfs have the excuse of a long generation length to explain why they are not multiplying like rabbits for the thousands of years since the last world war, however, Tolkien does not provide a good reason for the other human nations, the orcs or even the hobbits.

Possible explanation might be the unstable security situation on the continent, however, most of the societies are not described as being constantly under the risk of a raid from nearby orc. Aragorn is able to defend most of the north with a few hundred irregulars, while the east participated in only one war 60 years ago that was done in a few weeks time. The south is not described, but nothing unusual there as well as far as the books go.

Re: Why hasn't Middle Earth had an Industrial Revolution?

#69

I hate to be "that guy", but honestly I had to stop reading at: > Confession time. I have never read Lord of the Rings. I’ve tried. It’s boring as hell. When your whole article is based on something you have zero knowledge about... Sorry, I'm just not going to spend the time.

The article wasn't actually about lotr

Re: Why hasn't Middle Earth had an Industrial Revolution?

#70
Tolkien answered this question quite well to an interviewer, although in a somewhat different form. "People would run into me at the pub and ask me why I didn't just have the eagles carry the hobbits to mordor, it would have been so much easier. And I told them the same thing I'll tell you now.

"Shut up."

https://youtu.be/1-Uz0LMbWpI

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