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Flu vaccination linked to 40% reduced risk of Alzheimer’s disease

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Re: Flu vaccination linked to 40% reduced risk of Alzheimer’s disease

#121

Post by Jensson »

ncmncm wrote: post #112
zugi wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed there is a link but we don't even know the direction of causation. I find it quite plausible that people with as-yet undiagnosed early-onset Alzheimer's forget to get flu shots.

Yet, you also find it plausible that people who spent years on this project would never have thought of that. Your misplaced trust in your own plausibility filter causes you to make foolish posts on HN.

> Yet, you also find it plausible that people who spent years on this project would never have thought of that.

I find it plausible that the few people who spent hours reviewing this paper didn't think of that, and that the people publishing the paper ignored it since ignoring it could help them gain more funding.

> Your misplaced trust in your own plausibility filter causes you to make foolish posts on HN.

It is foolish to believe that scientists does things properly. As an outsider you only see the outlier results, meaning that most of what reaches HN could be faked or statistical trickery or have simple explanations due to poor science since poor science is more likely to produce headlines, while most scientists could still do the right thing.

Re: Flu vaccination linked to 40% reduced risk of Alzheimer’s disease

#122

Post by amluto »

runevault wrote: post #56
lukev wrote: post #54

Lots of discussion in this thread about the accuracy of the implied claim "vaccination can prevent Alzheimers", but not a lot about the correct course of action. Which seems to me to be, unambiguously, you should absolutely be religious about getting your flu shot every year. The vaccine is known to be safe and with few side effects (or at least, safer than the actual flu, which is the bar that needs to be cleared.)…

I will say, as someone with an egg allergy it isn't so black and white. Not everywhere carries alternative ways of getting flu vaccine, though hopefully post Covid mRNA versions will become more prevalent (assuming that version has the same impact, haven't read the article).

There are apparently two egg-free options: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/egg-allergies.htm

Re: Flu vaccination linked to 40% reduced risk of Alzheimer’s disease

#123

Post by Jedd »

Jensson wrote: post #114
Jedd wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it just proves people with dementia are less likely to remember to get a flu vaccine. I think you may have misread the fine article. Symptoms were observed to develop (or not develop) after a flu vaccination shot.

Dementia is preceded by many years of cognitive decline, it isn't something that just appears. A person with partially developed dementia that wouldn't get detected in a screen is still probably less likely to go get a flu shot, wouldn't you think?

It's certainly impressive that you thought up this profound and fundamental flaw in their study in just a few minutes pondering this on the couch and after briefly skimming a summary article published in a pop-media publication ... yet the fleet of scientists and researchers didn't consider this, factor it in, describe their control processes to cater for this and other confounding effects etc, for a study that spanned many years.

Re: Flu vaccination linked to 40% reduced risk of Alzheimer’s disease

#124

Post by Jedd »

DarkmSparks wrote: post #117
Jensson wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dementia is preceded by many years of cognitive decline, it isn't something that just appears. A person with partially developed dementia that wouldn't get detected in a screen is still probably less likely to go get a flu shot, wouldn't you think?

exactly this, because there is no treatment diagnosis is delayed as long as possible to avoid the stigma, by the time people get a diagnosis they are generally at the point they forget when to feed themselves. Prior to that the decline can be decades in the making. My gran obviously had dementia for 15 years before her diagnosis, by the time she was given it the only words she could say was "keep on keeping on"

Refer my response to parent.

Specifically to your most recent point, however, I'd observe that if treatment diagnosis is delayed as long as possible to avoid the stigma, that would put back treatment diagnosis for both groups, so it's hardly a compelling distinction there.

Anyway, I'd expect people with dementia at the time of their flu shot would have been assessed by the caregiver, and they would probably have been taken to the clinic by a family or friend anyway.

The compelling anecdote of your gran notwithstanding, of course.

Re: Flu vaccination linked to 40% reduced risk of Alzheimer’s disease

#125

Post by runevault »

amluto wrote: post #122
runevault wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will say, as someone with an egg allergy it isn't so black and white. Not everywhere carries alternative ways of getting flu vaccine, though hopefully post Covid mRNA versions will become more prevalent (assuming that version has the same impact, haven't read the article).

There are apparently two egg-free options: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/egg-allergies.htm

Yes there are versions that are not egg based, but last I remember they were not guaranteed to be available at a given location (I haven't gotten the flu shot in years because it was tedious). Which is why I'm hoping as mRNA as a mechanism grows more common non-egg based shots will as well. I remember when I was getting the covid shot being paranoid and triple checking that it in no way shape form or fashion used egg.

Re: Flu vaccination linked to 40% reduced risk of Alzheimer’s disease

#126

Post by ncmncm »

Jensson wrote: post #121
ncmncm wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, you also find it plausible that people who spent years on this project would never have thought of that. Your misplaced trust in your own plausibility filter causes you to make foolish posts on HN.

> Yet, you also find it plausible that people who spent years on this project would never have thought of that. I find it plausible that the few people who spent hours reviewing this paper didn't think of that, and that the people publishing the paper ignored it since ignoring it could help them gain more funding. > Your misplaced trust in your own plausibility filter causes you to make foolish posts on HN. It is foo…

Scientists are very frequently wrong. Any scientist who doesn't admit that is none. One example is adjacent to the topic here, continued adherence to the amyloid beta hypothesis.

But their mistakes are generally subtle, and not what somebody who knows nothing about the subject invents in the first seconds after first hearing about the topic.

Re: Flu vaccination linked to 40% reduced risk of Alzheimer’s disease

#127

Post by Auracle »

loeg wrote: post #34
wonderwonder wrote: post #5

Never gotten the flu vaccine before. Biggest fear in life is alzheimers. Guess I will get the flu vaccine annually going forward.

Worth getting anyway -- the flu is pretty miserable.

Sure, but I believe for every 70 years you take the flu vaccine you’ll prevent yourself from getting the flu once. It will probably lessen the severity of the flu the other time or two you get it, though.

Frankly, Alzheimer’s prevention makes it seem a hell of a lot more worthwhile to those that are young and healthy.

Re: Flu vaccination linked to 40% reduced risk of Alzheimer’s disease

#129

Post by Markoff »

At least one of the researchers (Paul E. Schulz) disqualifies this study, his disclosure: "Consulting Fees: Occasional advisory panels for Lilly, Acadia, and Biogen. Lecture Fees: Occasional disease state education talks for Lilly, Acadia, and Biogen. Patents/Royalties I serve as an expert witness for medical malpractice cases and other types of cases. None related to this paper. Not sure where to put this, but i am on about 12 NIH grants, none related to this study. And i have about 12 treatment trials funded by many pharmaceutical companies, including Lilly, Acadia, Biogen, Roche, UCB, etc. None are related to this paper, in my opinion."

And that's just one, who is even admitting anything, the others can be funded through various shell companies which looks at first unrelated to pharma and claim they have nothing to disclose. You won't bite hand that's feeeding you.

I take any research pushing vaccination (especially something like flu vaccines which are pretty much placebo with 10-60% efficacy if you are lucky [1] [2], if not 0%) with big grain of salt nowadays after our experiences with these "safe and effective" COVID vaccines, which were proven to be not so safe and hardly effective at all.

[1] https://www.science.org/content/article/why-flu-vaccines-so-...

[2] https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/seasonal-influenza/prevention-...

Re: Flu vaccination linked to 40% reduced risk of Alzheimer’s disease

#130

Post by TylerE »

ncmncm wrote: post #110
TylerE wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Otoh, people who visit the doctor regularly are more likely to be diagnosed

That was obviously controlled-for. A study of this size would not be conducted by idiots. HN has no such filter, though.

You should look at home many papers get withdrawn over really simple stuff.
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