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Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

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Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#91

Post by themodelplumber »

Spooky23 wrote: post #70
jhugo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What leverage exactly? Consider a major split between SA and US. Who do you think would come out worse off?

Look at the hysterics over the current gas crisis. Break it off with the Saudi and you’ll be wistfully looking back at $5 gas. The Saudi regime would have some issues too, but the worse things are for them, the worse it would be for the west.

This develops an immobilization in which the best choice is suspiciously-often found in accepting whatever comes; it's the prophet's conceit, a non-executive position which seeks to intuit outcomes rather than take risk and develop a smart path forward.

In application this psychology is not suitable for the full scope of political decisionmaking.

One needs to design a subjective logical system in which the leverage operates. The leverage could be used in thousands of different ways.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#92

Post by raincom »

hristov wrote: post #43
nobody9999 wrote: post #16

Not trying to be a negative Nancy here, but I did read (most) of TFA and was underwhelmed. That Saudi nationals were involved in the 9/11 attacks isn't news. That they had money and support (including from folks inside the US) isn't news. That multiple Federal and state law "enforcement" and intelligence agencies had information about the potential for these attacks isn't news. That those agencies didn't put all that…

It is not officially known that the Saudi government provided support to the hijackers through Embassy officials and known agents. The currently accepted story is that the Saudi government has always tried to protect the US, has never been in cahoots with Osama bin Laden (at least after he became a terrorist) or Al Queda, and is just kind of unfortunate to have some crazies live on its soil. If this is true, it is ac…

I don’t think these “crazies” employed by the Saudi govt constitute a small percentage. That’s why we shouldn’t call them crazies, as a large section of Saudi bureaucracy supports Salafis. The king of Saudi can’t eradicate them, as they are not 50 crazies working, but they are thousands of salafist sympathizers.

Once Saudi started wallowing in Petrodollars, the Saudi state and its foundations exported their preachers to countries where Muslims and others lived peacefully for a large extent, only to stir up.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#93

Post by sn0w_crash »

The one thing about 9/11 that nobody has been able to explain to me, even my most skeptical friends, is where is any footage or photographs of the plane that hit the pentagon?

I’m not talking about scattered debris. Or burnt desks and papers.

I’m talking about the plane. Or what’s left of it.

Anyone seen any actual footage or photos?

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#94

Post by reducesuffering »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #38
dhzhzjsbevs wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone always forgets Yemen. Why does everyone forget Yemen? Is it because it's the Saudis again? Or is it because Obama did it? Or because Trump continued it? Or is it because Biden said he would end it but didn't? https://youtube.com/watch?v=hFkngrRDdaA Inflammatory comment I know. Tell that to the 100s of thousands being genocided.

There seems to be some disconnect with Yemen as we aren't doing the bombing, we're merely supplying the bombs and planning the bombing. It's not our fault that the Saudi's are dropping US bombs on US targets. This justification falls apart with the blockade though.

If you want to advocate for the Yemeni Civil War issue, why don’t you commenters start with the reasons why Saudis and US are involved. Houthi’s are a foreign-backed (Iran) insurgency attempting to overthrow the government, with the racist slogan “Death to America, Death to Israel, Cursed be the Jews, Victory to Islam".

With that said, lots more needs to be done to prevent innocent civilians from the atrocities from both sides.

Nobody likes having to realpolitik with Saudi. They’re a shitty necessity to counter Iran’s attempt at stirring the pot with global Muslim caliphate nonsense.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#95

Post by nl »

daniel-cussen wrote: post #75
nl wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact the biggest obstacle to an intercessor on a plane would be the other passengers interceding on behalf of Muhammed Ata, to basically protect the stewardess from his boxcutter from Muhammed Ata from the intercessor. Like the terrorist isn't crazy, he's just a terrorist, you're crazy because you're protecting us from annihilation. Apart from that, apart from the other passengers insisting I accept a stewardess…

> new and unexpected. So on a South Tower flight, supposing I weren't a child at the time and were the man I am now, like you know the time of day, you know they're flying north, you know they're not turning the plane around to Cuba, which is what the itinerary looks like but like but it's not exactly it. And thirty minutes is an eternity for that. So the key is flashing on the truth, so there's like a couple times i…

Have a look at the list of hijackings[1]. I count 149 hijackings between 1960 and 9/11, and about 10 that were "mass casualty events" where more than the hijackers and 5 passengers or airline staff were killed. It seems at least 2 of the mass casualty events were accidents by the hijackers (bombs went off probably accidentally).

I understand your impulse to act, but the math is pretty clear - before 9/11 you were better off waiting out the hijacking. In the even that happened that would have been explained to you by the airline staff and fellow passengers as well as the hijackers.

(And most hijackings in the US didn't go to Cuba - they set down at a domestic airport)

In any event - your instinct to act is irrelevant as to if there was some conspiracy (which I think was your initial point?)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_hijackings

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#96

Post by stevenwoo »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #35
stevenwoo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the article, if everything is true (or beyond ordinary coincidence which it argues), what other explanation is possible?

People either have short memories, or were too young, but there was a legitimately bipartisan, independent commission that looked into this. Most of the info in this article is from that commission's investigation, with a few interesting new connections added. https://9-11commission.gov/report/ There was no coverup, it is just complicated. No doubt that there were elements in the Saudi govt that helped. That doesn't…

Yes, but that commission report was published in 2004 with heavily redacted and edited documents and the way that every subsequent administration has stonewalled release of any other tidbit of information makes it look like they have something to hide about a Saudi Arabian connection. Stuff has had to be dragged out over the decades to even piece together what actually happened in detail. Maybe there's nothing there. But we won't know at this rate for 100 years.

Even with discovery by the attorneys for the victims of the 9/11 attacks uncovering more information over the years, we did not know the identity of Mussaed al-Jarrah until the FBI under the Trump administration accidentally released documents with his name not redacted. https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/in-court-filing-fbi-accident...

Saudi Arabia later admitted it had been funding terrorists for generations supposedly as a counter to the former Soviet Union in Afghanistan and Iran, it only recently has tried to stop the spigot of money - the 9/11 commission made like this was not by design but outside forces somehow corrupting the intent - that they got this so wrong seems like something out of work of fiction https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/saudi-arabia...

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#97

Post by turdit »

nobody9999 wrote: post #16

Not trying to be a negative Nancy here, but I did read (most) of TFA and was underwhelmed. That Saudi nationals were involved in the 9/11 attacks isn't news. That they had money and support (including from folks inside the US) isn't news. That multiple Federal and state law "enforcement" and intelligence agencies had information about the potential for these attacks isn't news. That those agencies didn't put all that…

thank you

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#98

Post by esyir »

kmonsen wrote: post #88
daniel-cussen wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> new and unexpected. So on a South Tower flight, supposing I weren't a child at the time and were the man I am now, like you know the time of day, you know they're flying north, you know they're not turning the plane around to Cuba, which is what the itinerary looks like but like but it's not exactly it. And thirty minutes is an eternity for that. So the key is flashing on the truth, so there's like a couple times i…

You said you were a child at the time so I think it’s hard to understand the world before you. Everyone expected a hacked plane would land you the passengers would most likely be safe. From everything the passengers on the first plane knew the best way to survive was to do nothing.

No post body was provided.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#99

Post by boomboomsubban »

reducesuffering wrote: post #94
boomboomsubban wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seems to be some disconnect with Yemen as we aren't doing the bombing, we're merely supplying the bombs and planning the bombing. It's not our fault that the Saudi's are dropping US bombs on US targets. This justification falls apart with the blockade though.

If you want to advocate for the Yemeni Civil War issue, why don’t you commenters start with the reasons why Saudis and US are involved. Houthi’s are a foreign-backed (Iran) insurgency attempting to overthrow the government, with the racist slogan “Death to America, Death to Israel, Cursed be the Jews, Victory to Islam". With that said, lots more needs to be done to prevent innocent civilians from the atrocities from…

I never understand this argument. "The Houthi say "death to America," something they clearly state is an attack on US imperialist policies, so why should we feel bad about slaughtering them and the thousands of unrelated civilians?"

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#100

Post by reducesuffering »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #99
reducesuffering wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to advocate for the Yemeni Civil War issue, why don’t you commenters start with the reasons why Saudis and US are involved. Houthi’s are a foreign-backed (Iran) insurgency attempting to overthrow the government, with the racist slogan “Death to America, Death to Israel, Cursed be the Jews, Victory to Islam". With that said, lots more needs to be done to prevent innocent civilians from the atrocities from…

I never understand this argument. "The Houthi say "death to America," something they clearly state is an attack on US imperialist policies, so why should we feel bad about slaughtering them and the thousands of unrelated civilians?"

That’s literally addressing only three words from my argument into a straw man caricature. Try the whole thing in good faith.
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