Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 295 posts

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#241

Post by randomhodler84 »

henning wrote: post #236
randomhodler84 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

21 million Bitcoin. 2.1 Quadrillion Satoshi. For all time. Unlike gold which can be mined in the trillions from asteroids. Your argument that Bitcoin is trivially copyable was /an/ argument in 2014. We are in a different place now.

> Unlike gold which can be mined in the trillions from asteroids. Congratulations, this is the stupidest thing I've read on Hacker News. Asteroid mining is not feasible and may never be. If an argument was valid in 2014 and the logic behind that argument has not changed, it remains valid. People are still making pointless coins and getting big-name social media personalities to promote them.

Why not?

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#242

Post by bilbo0s »

jklinger410 wrote: post #209
paywallasinbeer wrote: post #5

For anyone else enjoying the crypto meltdown, might I suggest the subreddit /r/buttcoin? It's quite enjoyable. https://old.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/

Celebrating another person's failure is for small minds.

We all do it pretty much all the time.

Whether we're talking about hostile governments we don't like. Companies we don't like. Groups of people we don't like. We make jokes about them all the time.

It's just crypto's turn.

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#243

Post by mazlix »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #86
sweezyjeezy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it is trolling - that's orders of magnitude less harmful to society than a subreddit that offers dangerous financial advice.

Also less harmful than promoting the latest single waste of energy the world has ever seen… yet.

where are they promoting war?

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#244

Post by braingenious »

masswerk wrote: post #237
braingenious wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do they hate?

I guess, the Warsaw Pact – as Helmut Schmidt (German chancellor 1974 - 1982) had been a strong supporter of NATO's Pershing II rearmament? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Schmidt

I genuinely have never heard of this hate symbol, to clarify: the people that use three arrows in a logo hate signatories to the warsaw pact?

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#245

Post by bilbo0s »

adam_arthur wrote: post #240
dillondoyle wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many problems aside, they could just print or give money.

Yeah, check with South America on how that works out. It can be done to a certain extent, but obviously these aren't cost free solutions.

South Am governments are dependent on banks in other parts of the world.

The Chinese government is not.

There's just some realities about global economics. Uruguay, Portugal, or Rwanda default, then they have a problem. China or US has the same issues, and it's just not the same kind of problem. They would just redefine things so that they don't default and then call the whole thing a "bailout". I'm not ragging on south americans or africans or portuguese, I'm just stating facts. It's not fair, but that's how the global system works.

You do business with China or the US, you find out fairly early on that even in a crisis, it's their way or the highway.

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#246

Post by masswerk »

braingenious wrote: post #244
masswerk wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess, the Warsaw Pact – as Helmut Schmidt (German chancellor 1974 - 1982) had been a strong supporter of NATO's Pershing II rearmament? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Schmidt

I genuinely have never heard of this hate symbol, to clarify: the people that use three arrows in a logo hate signatories to the warsaw pact?

This was rather a historical joke, in order to provide some cognitive dissonance. (Assuming, the background of this "hate symbol" interpretation is something like Prager U. I really can't think of any other source for this than the developing culture wars and certain talking points by certain institutions, i.e., "we hate them, hence, they must have hated us first, thus, this has to be illegal".)

Historically, the three-arrows symbol emerged in 1932 as a symbol of resistance against the NSDAP and was adopted as the official symbol of the German social-democratic party (SPD) that same year. It symbolises an equidistance from the NSDAP, the communist KPD, and monarchism. In this context, it was decried as a symbol of a "social fascist terror organisation" by the KPD, while conservative parties hedged fears of a people's front at that very same time. It was also adopted by social-democrats in other countries, e.g. by the SPÖ in Austria (also 1932).

Wikipedia cites a slogan "neither Stalin's slaves nor Hitler's henchmen" in the context of this symbol. This is as much "hate" as you may get from this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Arrows

BTW, the social-democrat three-arrows symbol is three parallel arrows pointing downwards left inside a circle, while the Three Arrows Capital logo is three arrows fanning out and pointing to the upper right, intersected by a quadrant of a circle. Where the former is blocky and in uniform color (most often white on red), the latter is multicolored and drawn in fine lines. The two symbols have about nothing in common.

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#247

Post by adam_arthur »

bilbo0s wrote: post #245
adam_arthur wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, check with South America on how that works out. It can be done to a certain extent, but obviously these aren't cost free solutions.

South Am governments are dependent on banks in other parts of the world. The Chinese government is not. There's just some realities about global economics. Uruguay, Portugal, or Rwanda default, then they have a problem. China or US has the same issues, and it's just not the same kind of problem. They would just redefine things so that they don't default and then call the whole thing a "bailout". I'm not ragging on so…

You don't seem to understand that it's not that simple. If the trail of dependencies in the system is deep and highly leveraged, it doesn't matter if the government "wills" it to be one way or the other.

Economies and companies are highly interconnected. There is no magic wand to fix the problem without serious repercussions, even with an authoritarian government.

You wipe out USD debt holders, they will never lend to your companies again. You print money to pay off debts, you get inflation, weaker currency and potentially other destabilizing outcomes, like moral hazard of private sector expecting bailouts.

All debt problems can be solved via arbitrarily high inflation, yes. But it's also the setup for mass suffering and potentially revolution.

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#248

Post by hgsgm »

jcstauffer wrote: post #7
dmos62 wrote: post #3

Article has a refreshingly neutral tone. I wish all news were like this.

I particularly like how they neutrally listed all the assets and lines of credit of Voyager Digital (the loan holder) without mentioning that they add up to just $655M (< $670MM), meaning that they are now insolvent.

lines credit aren't assets, they don't add to assets, except in the sense of short term liquidity. They don't create solvency.

They are deeply insolvent because their lines of credit are far in excessive of their assets.

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#249

Post by hgsgm »

randomhodler84 wrote: post #211
Judgmentality wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with his argument about stablecoins is he didn't actually mention Tether, he just said whatever isn't failing. So basically after Tether fails the goal posts are moved and now all the stablecoins that haven't failed yet are held up as an example of success. Speaking of Tether, it's lost 25% of its market cap since May. https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/tether/

Yes, through redemptions. So we know $10s of billions is real — at least! It’s a stablecoin, so market cap is simply the amount printed.

The problem is that if Tether is under-collateralized, redemptions bring it closer to bankruptcy.

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#250

Post by throwaway292939 »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #153
cjbgkagh wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fool and their money are soon parted. The real problem is that swindlers have made a huge amount of money and can use that money to corrupt politicians so it affects the rest of us. It’s not just the extra tax of having to care for the newly impoverished. My former local community went all in on a bitcoin scam, they made commissions on new entrants so I never heard the end of it. I only talked about it when asked b…

The problem is the fintech industry - both crypto and mainstream - exists to swindle . The biggest rewards come from crossing the line and avoiding regulation/enforcement, either by legitimate or illegitimate means (including bribing enforcement officials). Next biggest are rewards for crossing the line and delaying enforcement until you can launder your rewards to a safe haven. If you're arrested and jailed - only l…

This seems like an unnecessarily harsh take.

For example, some fintech companies aren't groundbreaking from a tech perspective, but they make big strides on efficiencies from legacy systems. As long as you deliver value and are capturing some of that value, a business can be made.

Post reply on HN