Flu vaccination linked to 40% reduced risk of Alzheimer’s disease
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Re: Flu vaccination linked to 40% reduced risk of Alzheimer’s disease
#22My sister who is a public health specialist, cautioned me about how difficult establishing cause-and-effect in these sorts of discussions can be in general. She hasn't talked to me about this specific case, but lemme bring something up from the perspective that we Computer Scientists can understand. Cause-and-effect chains form a DAG (Directed Acyclic Graph). For example, A causes B causes C, in theory (or in this ca…
The study measured an extensive list of covariates [1]. The data source, "medical claims, pharmacy claims, administrative claims, and laboratory result data for privately insured or Medicare Advantage with Part D enrollees who have both medical and prescription-drug coverage" [2], excludes the uninsured and those without Medicare Part D, so that's not a confounder.
I'm having trouble finding a bias that would create this effect size other than reverse causation, i.e. people developing AD forget to get their flu shots.
[1] https://content.iospress.com/download/journal-of-alzheimers-...
[2] https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-alzheimers-...
Re: Flu vaccination linked to 40% reduced risk of Alzheimer’s disease
#23At some point we (researchers & scientists) should draw the line between correlation & causation. That there is 40% less incidence in flu vaccinated patients is established by observation, but is it due to flu vaccine by itself or factors which surrounds itself in people more prone to flu or who are medically more conscious? (edit: think of analysis of variance tests among identifiable medical & socioeconomic variabl…
This is a prominent theory for the cause of Alzheimer's disease [1].
Re: Flu vaccination linked to 40% reduced risk of Alzheimer’s disease
#24This article has very few details and is rather questionable, at best. Correlation does not imply causation. It could very well be that people who choose to get flu vaccines are more health-conscious and live a healthier lifestyle so they are less likely to get Alzheimers.
Re: Flu vaccination linked to 40% reduced risk of Alzheimer’s disease
#25If anyone out there thinks there are still people who don't realize that "correlation does not equal causation", don't worry, we all know.
Re: Flu vaccination linked to 40% reduced risk of Alzheimer’s disease
#261. The journal article didn't suggest it was causal. But such a correlation with such a large population warrants publication and further research into causation.
2. literally the first thing that any epidemiologist would consider is potential confounders. There is a big list of covariates they included into their model here: https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-alzheimers-...
There are quite a few things that can be done to alleviate potential false correlations: DAGs, prior literature, removing confounders, and including covariates are all things at disposal.
3. Such a large sample size + previously reported findings + an inclusion of enough covariates still doesn't == causation, BUT it's important to publish and shout about so we can then look into the potential biological underpinnings that may cause this. Which by the way, those experiments may still use data science techniques.
4. If you are actually interested, there is a whole topic of this called 'causal inference' with one famous criteria list called the 'Bradford Hill Criteria': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradford_Hill_criteria. This list is often argued about.
5. If all of this information was new to you, please stop spouting 'correlation != causation'. You probably don't know as much as you think
Re: Flu vaccination linked to 40% reduced risk of Alzheimer’s disease
#27Never gotten the flu vaccine before. Biggest fear in life is alzheimers. Guess I will get the flu vaccine annually going forward.
Re: Flu vaccination linked to 40% reduced risk of Alzheimer’s disease
#28My sister who is a public health specialist, cautioned me about how difficult establishing cause-and-effect in these sorts of discussions can be in general. She hasn't talked to me about this specific case, but lemme bring something up from the perspective that we Computer Scientists can understand. Cause-and-effect chains form a DAG (Directed Acyclic Graph). For example, A causes B causes C, in theory (or in this ca…
> lets consider a bunch of real life factors. Wealth, Age, Sex, Race, Educational Attainment, Insurance. Just the basic stuff anyone would think about The study measured an extensive list of covariates [1]. The data source, "medical claims, pharmacy claims, administrative claims, and laboratory result data for privately insured or Medicare Advantage with Part D enrollees who have both medical and prescription-drug co…
Hmmm... figuring out a possible mistake would require quite a bit of creativity. Creativity that's beyond my abilities at least, lol.
Note that having such a list hampers a lot of "creative" attempts to take down the study. For example, Tobacco Use is very clearly related to the Republican/Democrat divide, and is therefore an adequate stand-in for the effects of political views (in case political views have an effect on flu-vaccinations / Alzheimer's).
So anything "correlated" to these other covariates (ex: Red vs Blue states vs Tobacco) is "already factored in". As such, having a very, very big list like this helps dramatically.
Re: Flu vaccination linked to 40% reduced risk of Alzheimer’s disease
#29At some point we (researchers & scientists) should draw the line between correlation & causation. That there is 40% less incidence in flu vaccinated patients is established by observation, but is it due to flu vaccine by itself or factors which surrounds itself in people more prone to flu or who are medically more conscious? (edit: think of analysis of variance tests among identifiable medical & socioeconomic variabl…
From the abstract:
> Propensity-score matching (PSM) was used to create flu-vaccinated and flu-unvaccinated cohorts with similar baseline demographics, medication usage, and comorbidities.
If you want to argue that the authors did a bad job at this, for some reason, that would be a really meaningful contribution and I'd love to hear the details.
Otherwise, can we assume that the scientists writing and reviewing papers did a semi-competent job and are at least as good at analyzing quantitative claims as someone commenting on HN because they are bored at work?