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Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

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Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#161

Post by nikanj »

55555 wrote: post #23

I really don’t understand the business model of making massive fiat loans to “firms” to buy bitcoin. If crypto goes up, you get a small amount of interest. If crypto goes down, you lose everything. What? Lol. Just spend a fraction of the sum on bitcoin and do something safe with the rest. What was the plan? Edit: I guess when someone has “20 billion dollars” a 700mm loan doesn’t seem like a big risk.

If it goes up, I gain money. If it goes down, you lose money. They’re gambling with someone else’s cash and keeping the winnings

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#162

Post by ursuscamp »

I'm sure this doesn't apply to many here here, but: Do not trust leverage-trading crypto banks. Do not trade on leverage. These systems just recreate our current system of debt-based money that will inevitably collapse when the easy money dries up.

If you believe Bitcoin has a future like I do, then buy some Bitcoin and hold it in cold storage for a long time, or try to jumpstart a circular economy where you use Bitcoin to buy and sell goods. Don't try to recreate the current system with fake decentralization.

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#163

Post by ac29 »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #153
cjbgkagh wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fool and their money are soon parted. The real problem is that swindlers have made a huge amount of money and can use that money to corrupt politicians so it affects the rest of us. It’s not just the extra tax of having to care for the newly impoverished. My former local community went all in on a bitcoin scam, they made commissions on new entrants so I never heard the end of it. I only talked about it when asked b…

The problem is the fintech industry - both crypto and mainstream - exists to swindle . The biggest rewards come from crossing the line and avoiding regulation/enforcement, either by legitimate or illegitimate means (including bribing enforcement officials). Next biggest are rewards for crossing the line and delaying enforcement until you can launder your rewards to a safe haven. If you're arrested and jailed - only l…

> Mark Karpelès only received suspended sentences and spent no time in jail

He was in jail from August 2015 to July 2016, if his wikipedia article is correct. The suspended sentence came after that.

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#164

Post by Barrera »

> Prominent crypto hedge fund Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670 million. Digital asset brokerage Voyager Digital issued a notice on Monday morning, stating that the fund failed to repay a loan of $350 million in the U.S. dollar-pegged stablecoin, USDC, and 15,250 bitcoin, worth about $323 million at today’s prices.

In other words, the $670 million that 3AC defaulted on was ~50:50 USDC and bitcoin.

Then later:

> Zhu [3AC founder] is known for his incredibly bullish view of bitcoin. He said last year the world’s largest cryptocurrency could be worth $2.5 million per coin. But in May this year, as the crypto market began its meltdown, Zhu said on Twitter that his “supercycle price thesis was regrettably wrong.”

This seems odd. How does a person convinced that bitcoin exchange is headed to $2.5 million take out a loan of 15K bitcoin if he actually thinks he'll be paying back it back at a higher exchange rate? Either the founder was bullish in principle but bearish in practice, or didn't have the first clue about what he was doing.

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#165

Post by jaywalk »

Zpalmtree wrote: post #148
jpambrun wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is probably true that 99.9% of people with crypto use it as a speculative investment. The remaining 0.1% true crypto idealist may exist, but I have never met one. So it makes the previous statement very much mostly true. This type of disingenuous argument is why some of us rejoice at the crypto meltdown.

Most people in crypto I know like crypto and the cool tech it is developing, and also want to make money. What is wrong with that?

There's nothing wrong with wanting to make money. The problem is that many (most? the vast majority?) of the ways to make money with crypto are basically pyramid scheme-type scams.

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#167

Post by cm42 »

woodruffw wrote: post #124
happyopossum wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have a hate symbol on their site, LOL. Care to elaborate? I see one graphic on the 3ac website, and it's not one I'm familiar with so I assume it's a corp logo?

I think the GP is claiming that the 3AC logo is a reference to the Three Arrows[1] logo, which was used by the SPD in Weimar Germany and by some flavors of contemporary anarchists. But I can't find any evidence that it's an intended reference, and they look pretty different to me (different colors and directions; the only similarity is that they both happen to have arrows). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Ar…

It's like word association for people who can't read.

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#168

Post by celticninja »

frankharv wrote: post #142
gowld wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people making the loans are also speculating on crypto with other funds. The loans exist to pump the price up by fooling "technical" traders. It's market manipulation.

I think using the word 'traders' for these scammers is generous. Should reddit be allowed to present financial advice via their forum. That to me is a problem. Free Speech or financial system rules. People can say things on a forum with no repercussions. True or not. AMC is a shit stock now and it was 5 years ago. Gamestock too. Elon Musk says one thing wrong and is attacked by SEC. Not fair at all. Crypto should hav…

So anti regulation for Elon, pro regulation for crypto and Reddit. That's definitely a weird take.

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#169

Post by hgomersall »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #153
cjbgkagh wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fool and their money are soon parted. The real problem is that swindlers have made a huge amount of money and can use that money to corrupt politicians so it affects the rest of us. It’s not just the extra tax of having to care for the newly impoverished. My former local community went all in on a bitcoin scam, they made commissions on new entrants so I never heard the end of it. I only talked about it when asked b…

The problem is the fintech industry - both crypto and mainstream - exists to swindle . The biggest rewards come from crossing the line and avoiding regulation/enforcement, either by legitimate or illegitimate means (including bribing enforcement officials). Next biggest are rewards for crossing the line and delaying enforcement until you can launder your rewards to a safe haven. If you're arrested and jailed - only l…

There are many fintech companies that I see as hugely important in disrupting finance, which is desperately in need of disrupting. The various new banks and companies like Wise are dragging the industry into the 21st century, though the incumbents are still failing disastrously.

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#170

Post by bombcar »

seoaeu wrote: post #136
bombcar wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The danger is when they don't go to zero, and you suddenly thing you're stock picking geniuses - or you then decide to put it all in on the next one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beardstown_Ladies

Amusing quote from that page: “This revelation led to a class action lawsuit against publisher Hyperion, a division of The Walt Disney Company, which settled the case by offering to swap the Beardstown Ladies books for other Hyperion books.”

Considering I'd estimate something like 99% of investment book purchases are "for entertainment purposes" (i.e., the buyer either doesn't read it, or never bothers trying to implement any of it) this may be a decent option.
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