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NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

metaphysic.ai

81–90 of 169 posts

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#81

The bad news: This can and obviously will be abused - be it by the secret services or hackers. The good news, I suppose: As fast and scarily as the tech to fake things is evolving, so is presumably the tech that detects fakes.

Technology to detect fakes necessarily lags a bit from technology to create fakes.

In general, you need to have examples of a type of fake to detect it.

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#82
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rapid tech advancements the past 50 years and we're still here This is a tautology. At some point the music stops and you aren't here to make the argument that we are still here.

not entirely tautological. the probability that something bad happens tomorrow if we do X today for the first time is very different than the probability that something bad happens tomorrow if we do X today GIVEN weve been doing X every day for 50 years. It is still insufficient to say nothing bad will happen, of course

Thats not the argument. The one you are making is the same one people make when they conflate weather and climate.

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#83

Something I've wondered lately is what will life be like in a post-truth society? we already see examples of this now where a large number of people get their news from fake memes on facebook. There are huge swathes of people who live in their own make-believe world, like those believing wholeheartedly that the 2020 election was stolen. What will life be like when you can't trust any video or interview you see becaus…

I think we'll solve it the same way we solved similar transitions when text and image faking became easy: provenance. For many years now, most have understood that you can't take text and images as truth because they can easily be simulated or modified. In other words, the media itself is not self-verifying. Instead, we rely on knowing where a piece of media came from, and we associate truth value with those institut…

In other words, the same way we dealt with information before photographs and videos were invented. The answer to how to we deal with the fact that images and videos can't be trusted is to look at what we did before we relied on them. If we're smart about it we'll try to pick out the good things that worked and try to build in safeguards (as much as possible) against the things that didn't, but I won't hold my breath. We're already heading back towards some of the more problematic behavior, such as popularity or celebrity equating to trust.

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#84
post #21

Something I've wondered lately is what will life be like in a post-truth society? we already see examples of this now where a large number of people get their news from fake memes on facebook. There are huge swathes of people who live in their own make-believe world, like those believing wholeheartedly that the 2020 election was stolen. What will life be like when you can't trust any video or interview you see becaus…

So there are information theoretic ways to certify that media is genuine, if you assume trust at least somewhere in the process. Basically just cryptographic signing. For instance, a camera sensor could be designed such that every image that is captured on the sensor gets signed by the sensor at the hardware level, with a certificate that is embedded by the manufacturer. Then any video released could be verified agai…

> a camera sensor could be designed such that every image that is captured on the sensor gets signed by the sensor at the hardware level

A hardware-based private key like this will inevitably be leaked.

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#85

Something I've wondered lately is what will life be like in a post-truth society? we already see examples of this now where a large number of people get their news from fake memes on facebook. There are huge swathes of people who live in their own make-believe world, like those believing wholeheartedly that the 2020 election was stolen. What will life be like when you can't trust any video or interview you see becaus…

The concerns in your second paragraph can be mostly mititgated using a combination of trusted timestamping, PKI, cryptographically chained logs and trusted hardware. Recordings from normal hardware will increasingly approach complete untrustworthiness as time goes on.

The concerns raised in the first paragraph however... the next few decades are going to be a wild ride. Hopefully humanity eventually reaches an AI-supported utopic state where people can wrap themselves in their own realities, without it meaningfuly affecting anyone else. Perception of reality is already highly subjective, most of the fundamental issues are due to resource scarcity/inequality. Most other issues evaporate once that's solved.

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#86
post #21

Something I've wondered lately is what will life be like in a post-truth society? we already see examples of this now where a large number of people get their news from fake memes on facebook. There are huge swathes of people who live in their own make-believe world, like those believing wholeheartedly that the 2020 election was stolen. What will life be like when you can't trust any video or interview you see becaus…

So there are information theoretic ways to certify that media is genuine, if you assume trust at least somewhere in the process. Basically just cryptographic signing. For instance, a camera sensor could be designed such that every image that is captured on the sensor gets signed by the sensor at the hardware level, with a certificate that is embedded by the manufacturer. Then any video released could be verified agai…

I'll probably get downvoted into oblivion for mentioning blockchain tech, but this might at least help, maybe not in its current form but... I did not follow that project, but there do exist some concepts in this direction, e.g. this: https://techcrunch.com/2021/01/12/numbers-protocols-blockcha...

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#87
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. How would you "prove" it? Google it, and look for what other people that agree with you think?

Well... https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/05/01/ghost-of-kyi... admitted by Ukrainians themselves...

According to an article you found online. That's exactly my point, if we can't trust news sources then we can't really know anything. Because of my aforementioned distrust of Fox News, if it were written by them I'd dismiss that article out of hand placing no truth value on it either way. I'd expect somebody that distrusts CNN to do the same if it were written by them.

"It's confirmed!", "They admitted it!", and other unprovable internet turns of phrase in comments sections are really just "I believe it because somebody I trust said so" and that only has weight as long as trust has weight.

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#88
post #66

What's the difference in NeRF from a classical photogrammetry pointcloud workflow? It seems like the representation and outputs are identical. Why would you prefer NeRF to photogrammetry? Or vice versa?

Nerfs can represent reflection, speculars, refractions.

They also are proving to be faster, more accurate, etc

The input data is the same. Nerfs have the chance of requiring less input data.

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#89
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not entirely tautological. the probability that something bad happens tomorrow if we do X today for the first time is very different than the probability that something bad happens tomorrow if we do X today GIVEN weve been doing X every day for 50 years. It is still insufficient to say nothing bad will happen, of course

Thats not the argument. The one you are making is the same one people make when they conflate weather and climate.

Conditional probability applies to many things

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#90

Something I've wondered lately is what will life be like in a post-truth society? we already see examples of this now where a large number of people get their news from fake memes on facebook. There are huge swathes of people who live in their own make-believe world, like those believing wholeheartedly that the 2020 election was stolen. What will life be like when you can't trust any video or interview you see becaus…

The concerns in your second paragraph can be mostly mititgated using a combination of trusted timestamping, PKI, cryptographically chained logs and trusted hardware. Recordings from normal hardware will increasingly approach complete untrustworthiness as time goes on. The concerns raised in the first paragraph however... the next few decades are going to be a wild ride. Hopefully humanity eventually reaches an AI-sup…

I think you can technically mitigate some concerns for the people who understand that, but practically it's going to be a very different story. People will believe who/what they believe, and an expert opinion on trustworthiness is unlikely to change that.

I think being in the real world and meeting real people is the only way to create a real, functional society. Allowing people to drift away into their own AI supported worlds would eventually make cooperation very difficult. I think it would just accelerate the tendency we've seen with social media, creating ever more extreme positions and ideologies.

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