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Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

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Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#101
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s essentially it, a small town where everyone knew each other and all hung out in the same bars. I didn’t pay attention to which one it was, I do remember hearing crazy interest, like >40%. I think you also got a cut from new entrants as well, so it reeked of pyramid + ponzi.

I'm fascinated that some kind of place like this existed. I've only lived in large cities and the picture I've gotten of small towns from trips and media hasn't prepared me for the idea of a whole community that collectively buys into a get rich quick scheme.

It happens all the time but often the community and the physical community don't overlap, but check out /r/MLM or other similar subreddits and there's whole groups of scammers who target particular groups (church, social, retired, veterans, etc) with particular pitches designed for that group.

Because if some rando tells you to join Amway or invest in AmCOIN™ you will tell them to get bent, but if it's a trusted friend, you're much more likely to be open.

It's disgusting, but it happens. And in a small town, likely everyone goes to the same church or two, hangs out at the same bar, etc. It can spread like wildfire, though usually after the first few scams it becomes known and starts to die out a bit.

Sometimes you recognize the situation and decide to "participate" (read: lose some small amount of money in the scam) to stay in the community.

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#102
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One example: Ukraine's military has been using bitcoin to pay their suppliers. The bitcoin network is antifragile and not vulnerable to attack the way their traditional banking infrastructure has shown to be. When searching I mostly found results on crypto news sites (naturally), but here are some mainstream sources: https://time.com/6155209/ukraine-crypto/ https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-cryptocurrency-tec…

> The bitcoin network is antifragile and not vulnerable to attack the way their traditional banking infrastructure has shown to be. The traditional banking infrastructure works just fine in Ukraine. You can send money in and out.

That may be true right now, but their banking system has had a lot of downtime this year.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-crypto-is-helping-ukraine-r...

> He noted that since “the national bank is not really operating, crypto is helping to perform fast transfers, to make it very quick and get results almost immediately.”

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I particularly like how they neutrally listed all the assets and lines of credit of Voyager Digital (the loan holder) without mentioning that they add up to just $655M (< $670MM), meaning that they are now insolvent.

I don't think defaulting on a loan means you're going to pay $0.00 on that loan, just that you've missed a payment (plus whatever grace period is given).

Default means that you are or have been technically deemed incapable of making any further payments. This includes repaying the principal outstanding.

You're confusing any potential amount ultimately recoverable in insolvency with some kind of imaginary ex gratia payment by a management of a imaginary going concern which absolutely doesn't exist in Ch.12. Its chapter12 in the circumstances conceived.

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#104
post #30

> As of Friday, Voyager said it had approximately $137 million in U.S. dollars and owned crypto assets. > Last week, Alameda (FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried’s quantitative trading firm) committed $500 million in financing to Voyager Digital, a crypto brokerage. Voyager has already pulled $75 million from that line of credit. Am I misunderstanding something, or: what kind of mismanagement could possibly lead to loans b…

Is it mismanagement? It's head-I-win-tails-you-lose. Why would Voyager be playing a radically different game than 3AC? That kind of leverage can mint a billionaire if the dice roll the right way.

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no real problems with donating fiat to Ukraine, you can send money to them no problem. https://u24.gov.ua/ As far as I can tell the reason they bought a bunch of stuff with crypto is because crypto fans gave them a bunch of crypto, not because they need to route around actual problems with the banking system. Of course Ukraine would make noises about how much they like crypto, because anything that encourages…

https://www.yahoo.com/video/ukraine-government-using-crypto-... > Chobanian says vendors are stepping up to accept crypto in exchange for supplies and crypto is proving to be more efficient than traditional payment methods. > “It's really difficult to [send money] using traditional methods. First of all, it takes a lot of time. Secondly, it's a lot of bureaucracy and so on. Here, we are really fast. So we receive mon…

[deleted]

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#106
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s essentially it, a small town where everyone knew each other and all hung out in the same bars. I didn’t pay attention to which one it was, I do remember hearing crazy interest, like >40%. I think you also got a cut from new entrants as well, so it reeked of pyramid + ponzi.

I'm fascinated that some kind of place like this existed. I've only lived in large cities and the picture I've gotten of small towns from trips and media hasn't prepared me for the idea of a whole community that collectively buys into a get rich quick scheme.

The town is mostly retirees and it was mostly the retirees that got suckered into it. Inflation eating away at fixed incomes and low interest rates undermining their investments.

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#107
post #14

For anyone else enjoying the crypto meltdown, might I suggest the subreddit /r/buttcoin? It's quite enjoyable. https://old.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/

Why would u enjoy people losing their life savings? Just because they told you to have fun staying poor on the way up?

> Just because they told you to have fun staying poor on the way up?

I mean, yes? The level of hubris so many crypto bros exhibited was truly incredible. And if that weren't enough the negative externalities (the truly shockingly wasteful nature of proof-of-work mining, the diversion and scalping of GPUs) should make anyone glad that the bubble burst.

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#108

Imagine giving your money to anarchists and then you get scammed. They have a hate symbol on their site, LOL.

> They have a hate symbol on their site, LOL.

Care to elaborate? I see one graphic on the 3ac website, and it's not one I'm familiar with so I assume it's a corp logo?

Re: Three Arrows Capital has defaulted on a loan worth more than $670M

#109
post #93

I am confused: The only logical reason to borrow BTC is if you think it will go down. If Three Arrow really thought BTC was headed to 2.5m a coin, then they could never sell/spend the coins they borrowed, as the price of buying back to repay the loan would be too high. So logically they must have been shorting BTC. And if they were shorting BTC, they should have made ~30% profit in the last few months right? So what…

You can borrow btc then use that btc to take 5x leveraged positions on btc. If number go up, you make billions. If number go down 20% you default on loan. Absolute scumbag behaviour of course.

I guess that makes more sense. But then you're only 4x exposed to BTC (god help you). Why not borrow USD and do the same and get 5x leverage

What's that thing about if you owe the bank 10k you're in trouble, but if you owe them 10m they're in trouble? :)

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