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Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

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Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#221

Post by kelseyfrog »

mabbo wrote: post #207
photochemsyn wrote: post #180

The general issue with the largest employers in the neoliberalized countries (Amazon, Walmart) relative to the outsourced sectors (manufacturing mainly) is that wages are now much lower for the blue-collar worker, who is now doing service/shipping (~$15/hr -> ~$30k/yr) rather than manufacturing (~$30/hr -> ~$60k/yr). Amazon employs about one million people in the United States, and unionization and collective bargain…

Amazon as a whole is profitable, but AWS subsidizes the rest. Amazon retail loses money because it's constantly undercutting competitors, and investing heavily in further CapEx to reduce costs. If they had to pay living wages to those employees, they would stop being able to undercut every other business.

Sounds like labor is subsidizing AMZNs ability to undercut competitors.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#222

Post by gruez »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #216
missedthecue wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People "only" complain due to their effectiveness? OPEC is also a union, have I no grounds to complain about them? What about when meat packing companies cartelize together to raise their incomes? Competition is a good thing whether in labor or oil or chicken markets.

OPEC is a cartel. In most econ 101 classes it is used as the most prevalent example of a cartel. I have never seen anyone argue that it is a labor union.

Is a labor union not a cartel for labor?

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#223

Post by kelseyfrog »

missedthecue wrote: post #189
dools wrote: post #34

Unions and vaccines are similar in that they are a collective action against which people only complain due to their effectiveness. That is to say, all the libertarians complaining about unions and vaccines can do so comfortably only because they have never been exposed to the horrors they helped to prevent .

People "only" complain due to their effectiveness? OPEC is also a union, have I no grounds to complain about them? What about when meat packing companies cartelize together to raise their incomes? Competition is a good thing whether in labor or oil or chicken markets.

What does the word union mean to you?

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#224

Post by krolden »

ETH_start wrote: post #98
andrepd wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay. So your company treats you like shit and you quit. Where do you go now? You need to sell your labour to survive, so you lost all your income. Your employer has other sources of income, has reserve capital, so that even if your job was critical and production is now shut while they look for a replacement (unlikely), they're gonna be fine. But you need to eat tonight . Not next quarter or next month or even next…

The employer owes you nothing. You're citing your difficult circimstances to justify getting the government to seize control of an employer from its shareholders, in dictating its hiring decisions. But as a practical matter, opportunities expand faster when labor markets are free, and capital owners are secure in their rights. Employment growth has been widely observed to be stronger where labor laws are less restric…

>Detroit was the richest city in America in 1950. Within 40 years of the UAW Union taking over the Big Three automakers (membership rose through the 50s and 60s, peaking in 1979), the big automakers have lost their market dominance, and Detroit is a shell of its former self.

Oh yeah blame the unions for the downfall of the american auto industry. It had nothing to do with the biggest recession in the last 40 years and the fact that no one wanted new cars when they were losing their house to the banks.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#225

Post by lbrito »

908B64B197 wrote: post #201
jleyank wrote: post #197

They might want to be somewhat careful here so as to not piss off the provincial government. As a foreign, anglophone company, I’m sure there’s a rule or inspection they can produce if they need to to make Amazon’s life miserable. And they won’t care if Amazon leaves.

> They might want to be somewhat careful here so as to not piss off the provincial government. As a foreign, anglophone company, I’m sure there’s a rule or inspection they can produce if they need to to make Amazon’s life miserable. I don't think the government will get involved at all. Seems they had these specific labor laws for decades. It'll just go to court and get settled there. I doubt Amazon are the first to…

>I don't think the government will get involved at all.

Oh man, then you really don't know about Québec!

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#226

Post by kyleplum »

gruez wrote: post #222
dghlsakjg wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OPEC is a cartel. In most econ 101 classes it is used as the most prevalent example of a cartel. I have never seen anyone argue that it is a labor union.

Is a labor union not a cartel for labor?

No because the company has other options for labor - it can fire it's entire workforce and rehire, or relocate. The same can't be said for cartels which have complete control over their respective markets.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#227

Post by missedthecue »

kyleplum wrote: post #226
gruez wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a labor union not a cartel for labor?

No because the company has other options for labor - it can fire it's entire workforce and rehire, or relocate. The same can't be said for cartels which have complete control over their respective markets.

Not in all industries or countries. This only applies to extremely weak unions. It is very difficult to hire non-uaw members for instance. There was a huge multi-month strike brining massive work stoppages a few years ago over this issue. Same with Kelloggs last year.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#228

Post by missedthecue »

adam-a wrote: post #204
missedthecue wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People "only" complain due to their effectiveness? OPEC is also a union, have I no grounds to complain about them? What about when meat packing companies cartelize together to raise their incomes? Competition is a good thing whether in labor or oil or chicken markets.

What are you talking about? OPEC is not a labour union, which is clearly what’s being discussed here. You may as well say a horse is a duck because they both shit.

OPEC works the same way as a union. They are both groups of competitors that band together to form a cartel, using similar tactics to increase the price of the product the sell. In one case, oil, in the other, labor.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#229

Post by missedthecue »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #223
missedthecue wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People "only" complain due to their effectiveness? OPEC is also a union, have I no grounds to complain about them? What about when meat packing companies cartelize together to raise their incomes? Competition is a good thing whether in labor or oil or chicken markets.

What does the word union mean to you?

Restricting competition to raise the cost of the product sold. That's why unions hate people who cross the picket line. If you willingly compete, you undermine the whole strategy.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#230

Post by kelseyfrog »

missedthecue wrote: post #229
kelseyfrog wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does the word union mean to you?

Restricting competition to raise the cost of the product sold. That's why unions hate people who cross the picket line. If you willingly compete, you undermine the whole strategy.

That's so interesting. Most people tend to call that a monopoly and use the word union for something else. What made you choose to use union for this behavior instead?
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