Anyone have a clue for me what the 'CMA' is? I assume it's not CMA China Shipping, nor the Country Music Association, nor a Certified Management Accountant certification. (I did try to figure it out on my own before asking) Thanks in advance.
Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security
41–50 of 593 posts
Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security
#42So they are saying that they can't make a secure sandbox? Why is running other applications somehow secure?
fwiw: the App Store also prohibits JITed code or in general code pulled in after app publishing. I guess the idea is that (at least in theory) that Apple sees all code that an app runs.
I suspect that has more to do with preventing an App Store competitor than security. Apps are completely sandboxed on iOS, and there's no way in hell Apple is auditing every app on the store in any meaningful way.
Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security
#43IIRC, every video game console that ships with webkit has been jailbroken due to vulnerabilities in webkit. Off the top of my head at least, I know the following have been exploited that way: * PS4 * PS Vita * 3DS/New 3DS * Wii U * Wii Also maybe PS3/PSP and likely also PS5 will get the webkit exploit treatment at some point.
iOS as well - JailbreakMe[0] and TotallyNotSpyware[1] use a WebKit exploit to get out of the sandbox to then trigger other exploits that allow full system compromise/control.
Note that, while earlier JailbreakMe exploits were patchable if you installed a patch[2], the readme in the TotallyNotSpyware repo explains that, in general, there's not a patch for the exploit post-jailbreak, so you could still be pwned by a third-party website should they deliver this exploit with a spyware payload.
0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JailbreakMe
1: https://github.com/JakeBlair420/totally-not-spyware
2: https://www.idownloadblog.com/2011/07/06/pdf-patcher-2/ (use an ad-blocker, this website is super ad-infested)
Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security
#44Then put it behind a switch and let the user take responsibility. Based on how apple has responded to security issues before, I don’t really think they have much of a leg to stand on.
Also, a security issue with safari is far more devastating if you don’t have other browsers.
1. You have to wait for apple to release a system update, not just update the app.
2. You now have no safe browser to use while you wait for #1.
Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Safari still has around 60% on MacoS and all the normal users believe that there is browser competition now. At best it's speculation, but we can compare that to the very real harms of Apple's browser ban. We've written about the harms in detail here: https://open-web-advocacy.org/files/OWA%20-%20Bringing%20Com...
It may be 60% on MacOS but that’s a very tiny market. Overall Chrome is quite dominant. Numbers I found say on desktop Chrome is at 70%. Include the 7.75% for Edge (because it’s basically Chrome) and that’s almost 80%. FF at least exists and is similar to Safari. On mobile it’s at 65%. Safari is the only other browser above 5%. Chrome is dangerously close to total monopoly.
MacOS is the only market Safari actually competes in and has the same advantage by being the default.
I would actually expect the most likely outcome is Apple would fight hard to build a better browser to stem any losses to other browsers. They'll have at least 2 years to do it, so they can catch up in that time with enough investment.
Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security
#46Anyone have a clue for me what the 'CMA' is? I assume it's not CMA China Shipping, nor the Country Music Association, nor a Certified Management Accountant certification. (I did try to figure it out on my own before asking) Thanks in advance.
Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Safari still has around 60% on MacoS and all the normal users believe that there is browser competition now. At best it's speculation, but we can compare that to the very real harms of Apple's browser ban. We've written about the harms in detail here: https://open-web-advocacy.org/files/OWA%20-%20Bringing%20Com...
It may be 60% on MacOS but that’s a very tiny market. Overall Chrome is quite dominant. Numbers I found say on desktop Chrome is at 70%. Include the 7.75% for Edge (because it’s basically Chrome) and that’s almost 80%. FF at least exists and is similar to Safari. On mobile it’s at 65%. Safari is the only other browser above 5%. Chrome is dangerously close to total monopoly.
Maybe Safari mobile would have to make a better UI with more competition, and could then keep more users.
Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security
#48Anyone have a clue for me what the 'CMA' is? I assume it's not CMA China Shipping, nor the Country Music Association, nor a Certified Management Accountant certification. (I did try to figure it out on my own before asking) Thanks in advance.
The Competition and Markets Authority (The UK Regulator).
You can read more here: https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/mobile-ecosystems-market-study
And their new market investigation here: https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/mobile-browsers-and-cloud-gamin...
or our tweet thread summary here: https://twitter.com/OpenWebAdvocacy/status/15395035090783887...
Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Quoted post unavailable.
I think you make some good points, but you really need to tone it down. OP is sincerely voicing an opinion that is held by a lot of us here, and it's inappropriate to spew this much anger at them and accuse them of shilling and dishonesty. As in everything, someone can disagree with you without being evil.
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Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security
#50I’m going to ignore the security angle and post my big fear. Chrome has dominance similar to IE at the height of its popularity. Whatever you think of their decisions, Apple is the only thing stopping a 90%+ Chrome web. (Note: not why they’re doing it, just a side effect) People keep arguing Apple is being anti-competitive. But no one seems to recon with the possible consequences of what they’re asking for. And I fea…
So, you are happy to have Apple provide no user choice, because you fear a future where there is no user choice?