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Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security

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Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security

#31
post #14

I’m going to ignore the security angle and post my big fear. Chrome has dominance similar to IE at the height of its popularity. Whatever you think of their decisions, Apple is the only thing stopping a 90%+ Chrome web. (Note: not why they’re doing it, just a side effect) People keep arguing Apple is being anti-competitive. But no one seems to recon with the possible consequences of what they’re asking for. And I fea…

On the other hand, if Apple's anti-competitive practices end and Chrome finally hits 90%+ market share, it would make it much harder for regulators to ignore Chrome's dominance and might lead to some actual change for once.

Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security

#32
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they hit 90%? I assume the way this would play out is that most people would stick with the stock browser because they don't even know/care about alternatives. The people that do care would likely install the same browser they use on desktop. I don't think Chrome owns 90% of desktop market share.

You don’t think Google will push Chrome to iOS users with banners when they search, use YouTube, Gmail, etc? That’s what they did on desktop.

They already do this in their Apps, e.g. gmail at least at one piont prompted you to install chrome whenever you tried to open a link in a browser.

Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security

#33
post #24
post #14

I’m going to ignore the security angle and post my big fear. Chrome has dominance similar to IE at the height of its popularity. Whatever you think of their decisions, Apple is the only thing stopping a 90%+ Chrome web. (Note: not why they’re doing it, just a side effect) People keep arguing Apple is being anti-competitive. But no one seems to recon with the possible consequences of what they’re asking for. And I fea…

Quoted post unavailable.

I think you make some good points, but you really need to tone it down. OP is sincerely voicing an opinion that is held by a lot of us here, and it's inappropriate to spew this much anger at them and accuse them of shilling and dishonesty. As in everything, someone can disagree with you without being evil.

Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security

#34
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they hit 90%? I assume the way this would play out is that most people would stick with the stock browser because they don't even know/care about alternatives. The people that do care would likely install the same browser they use on desktop. I don't think Chrome owns 90% of desktop market share.

You don’t think Google will push Chrome to iOS users with banners when they search, use YouTube, Gmail, etc? That’s what they did on desktop.

Yes, but again why would that suddenly mean 90% of people use it vs the reality of desktop today where they don't own 90% of the market? Why are 9 out of 10 people suddenly jumping ship because Google pushed chrome on their phone vs on their desktop PC?

Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security

#35
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they hit 90%? I assume the way this would play out is that most people would stick with the stock browser because they don't even know/care about alternatives. The people that do care would likely install the same browser they use on desktop. I don't think Chrome owns 90% of desktop market share.

You don’t think Google will push Chrome to iOS users with banners when they search, use YouTube, Gmail, etc? That’s what they did on desktop.

Especially since Google is forcing some users on iOS to install the Youtube app as the default 2FA method instead of offering SMS.

Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security

#36
post #19
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fwiw: the App Store also prohibits JITed code or in general code pulled in after app publishing. I guess the idea is that (at least in theory) that Apple sees all code that an app runs.

They allow Wechat and Alipay to pull in code after publishing (See Mini-Apps). Regardless there's no evidence that Safari would do a better job at protecting user's security than Firefox or Chrome/Edge.

Based on this video[0], it looks like "mini-apps" are just webviews, as everything is either .js, .css, or .wxml (html). Thus, anything that integrates with WeChat or system APIs is going through some API within the wechat binary itself which allows Apple's static analysis to inspect the API usage during App Store review.

0: https://youtu.be/cOm9XKga7l0

Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security

#37
post #14

I’m going to ignore the security angle and post my big fear. Chrome has dominance similar to IE at the height of its popularity. Whatever you think of their decisions, Apple is the only thing stopping a 90%+ Chrome web. (Note: not why they’re doing it, just a side effect) People keep arguing Apple is being anti-competitive. But no one seems to recon with the possible consequences of what they’re asking for. And I fea…

I don't think the IE comparison is apt.

IE shipped on (almost) every machine, had a ton of lock in features like ActiveX, etc. MS actively abused their monopoly position to make it so preventing default installation of Netscape by OEMs, incentivising ISVs to ensure web based enterprise products shipped with "Works best in Internet Explorer" etc. Netscape lost market share to IE not because it lost users but because while the userbase was massively expanding they were buying Wintel boxes that shipped with IE on them so they never learnt that Netscape existed.

Chrome is something users install because it's their preferred choice. We can argue as to why it's their preferred choice but the point remains that users actively download and install Chrome - usually as one of the first things they do when they purchase a new computer.

That to me puts things on an entirely different level. To compete reasonably with Chrome you need to compete for users directly. You could argue that Google abuses it's monopoly position to market Chrome and that would probably be a valid argument but again, it doesn't change the active decision users are making.

If anything Safari (especially on iOS) is more like IE. In that it serves Apple more than it serves users. Apple wants PWAs to remain gimped, by simply dragging their feet or refusing to implement certain web standards/proposals they effectively gimp PWAs. This forces apps to be written for their platform which in turn is where they generate the vast majority of their scalable growth/profit.

Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security

#38
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they hit 90%? I assume the way this would play out is that most people would stick with the stock browser because they don't even know/care about alternatives. The people that do care would likely install the same browser they use on desktop. I don't think Chrome owns 90% of desktop market share.

You don’t think Google will push Chrome to iOS users with banners when they search, use YouTube, Gmail, etc? That’s what they did on desktop.

GMail on iOS already asks you to install Chrome on every link you click. It’s not even a hypothetical lol

Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security

#39
post #10

Comparing CVE counts is a bit nonsensical. For instance, Chrome and Firefox don't individually assign CVEs for internally reported vulnerabilities. For instance, in these patch notes Chrome lists "Various fixes from internal audits, fuzzing and other initiatives" and doesn't even look to have a CVE: https://chromereleases.googleblog.com/2022/05/stable-channel... Or for Firefox, there's a dozen or so bundled together…

I agree, measuring "security" by counting CVE counts is a bit like measuring developer productivity by counting git commits, it simply doesn't make sense.

But in the grand schema of things, who cares how many CVEs a project has, when it can take almost 2 months for the project to ship updates fixing exploits that happen in the wild already? That's just out of control and unbelievable.

Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security

#40
post #35
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t think Google will push Chrome to iOS users with banners when they search, use YouTube, Gmail, etc? That’s what they did on desktop.

Especially since Google is forcing some users on iOS to install the Youtube app as the default 2FA method instead of offering SMS.

SMS 2FA is broken.

You have a bunch of other options including security keys, TOTP, and existing device verification flow.

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