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It’s evident that this is North American style union-busting
Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal
121–130 of 303 posts
Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal
#122It's a testament to how effective propaganda can be when you see how easily you can get people to vote against their own interests. It's crazy to me that anyone who works in these Amazon warehouses votes agains tunionization but they do [1]. Even in the successful vote, there were still a lot of "no" votes. Unionization in the US is the lowest of all OECD nations (~10%) [2]. Is it any wonder US workers don't get paid…
>get 2 weeks vacation?
I had to laugh at this one. When I worked construction plumbing (non-union, "free-to-work" state), I received 0 days vacation and 2 days of sick pay per year.
You're saying this is a testament to the effectiveness of the propaganda and I'll back that up, anecdotally, having worked around those very people that vote against their own interests.
I was even rejected from taking two weeks off when my son was born. Needless to say I was there for his birth and his first few months, but some that I worked with were not there for their children's first days.
Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Even in the successful vote, there were still a lot of "no" votes. I'm gonna steelman those no votes. BigCos don't like unions to the point they can and sometimes do close the place/warehouse alltogether. This is worse than working in non-union shop, especially in economically depressed area.
Every Amazon warehouse that unionizes make it less possible to close a given warehouse to snuff out a budding union. Amazon is spending millions on union-busting lawyers. From the article, workers had to go to mandatory anti-union classes, which is pretty funny coming from a company where you could get written up for "time off task" by taking a bathroom break. The propaganda the company is pushing is that the company…
>>The propaganda the company is pushing is that the company and the workers are working together. They are not. Those workers are being exploited. Bezos considered turnover desirable.
While it is propaganda to claim the interests of the workers and company are aligned, it's also propaganda to claim that they're being exploited.
A voluntary market interaction, that 95% of the world population would jump at the opportunity to engage in, is by no reasonable definition, exploitive.
And society at large will not benefit from forcing Amazon to give Amazon warehouse workers above market wages.
Lower turnover will also turn Amazon warehouse work into another union cast, that benefits those who got in early, before union walls closed the door behind them, while making it more difficult for new workers to get a job with Amazon.
Amazon itself is also likely to slow its hiring if union action forces its labor costs up.
Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal
#124Note: this website often contains highly unreliable material and often publishes articles defending such things as the Berlin Wall.
Yes, imagine a website publishing opinion pieces with diverse viewpoints, some of which you find repulsive... I fail to see how that is relevant for this particular article.
The founder of the magazine defended the Berlin Wall and the killing of the surrendered Romanov children.
Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal
#125It's a testament to how effective propaganda can be when you see how easily you can get people to vote against their own interests. It's crazy to me that anyone who works in these Amazon warehouses votes agains tunionization but they do [1]. Even in the successful vote, there were still a lot of "no" votes. Unionization in the US is the lowest of all OECD nations (~10%) [2]. Is it any wonder US workers don't get paid…
>get people to vote against their own interests.
This is one of the most obnoxious terms I see in contemporary political dialogue.
It's presumptuous, it's elitist, it's a thinly veiled way to say 'these people are too stupid to know what's good for them'.
Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is clearly too broad a brush. Collective bargaining is useful if your needs are aligned with the collective, if not they may be at best unhelpful and at worst actively counter productive (for instance if you have some personal circumstance you wanted to negotiate beyond the terms of the agreement, rather than negotiating with a boss or two you now have to negotiate with your representative organization). Not to…
Sure, I agree with you, there are nuances. But it's also quite clear individual workers benefit from unionizing almost always. Corporations are large and have an enormous advantage in negotiation with a single, replaceable worker.
Well "almost always" is a step in the right direction, though I'd say is still a tad too strong. Probably favorable working conditions are reliably improved by unions, but there are also probably reliably less jobs to go around in union situations. And of course the specifics of the job also probably matter quite a good deal. I would be content with something like "Amazon warehouse workers would likely have reduced hours and improved medical benefits with a union."
Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal
#127It’s not just Amazon it’s big and small businesses that operate this way. I rather focus broader reform than just focusing on Amazon.
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Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Even in the successful vote, there were still a lot of "no" votes. I'm gonna steelman those no votes. BigCos don't like unions to the point they can and sometimes do close the place/warehouse alltogether. This is worse than working in non-union shop, especially in economically depressed area.
Every Amazon warehouse that unionizes make it less possible to close a given warehouse to snuff out a budding union. Amazon is spending millions on union-busting lawyers. From the article, workers had to go to mandatory anti-union classes, which is pretty funny coming from a company where you could get written up for "time off task" by taking a bathroom break. The propaganda the company is pushing is that the company…
To be fair, outside counsel spend adds up quick—a couple million isn’t really indicative of much, and is probably comparable to what unions are spending on these campaigns.
Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal
#129Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal
#130Quoted post unavailable.
Can you explain why you skipped over these? > management has worked to isolate pro-union workers and threatened to relocate the warehouses if unionization succeeds. > One worker said his life has become miserable since he uttered the word “union” at work. “Every coworker who talks to me, after a few seconds, they are interrogated by the manager. When they do that, people don’t want to talk to you anymore. I’m being i…
Because it's vague and hearsay. The most frustrating thing about these debates is that the pro-union side are so hostile to anyone who questions anything, as though they assume that anyone who doubts the union must be a business owner. I'm a worker, I would like to be part of a union that worked. But I don't see unions that work, I just see unreasonable and propaganda-like articles like these. When there is a dispute, if I try to look at it dispassionately, I usually find that I disagree with the union. So where does that leave me if I want to improve my rights as a worker?