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Most of the world’s grain is not eaten by humans

economist.com

221–230 of 314 posts

Re: Most of the world’s grain is not eaten by humans

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in 20 years time, it will be your turn to be retroactively punished for currently belonging to a society that is burning the world?

If the people who are destroying our biosphere thought they would face appropriate consequences, they would behave very differently.

Bad motives will find their way.

Punishment is not a sustainable measure, it only fosters more bad motives, and rules used to justify the punishment inform malicious actors on how to not get caught (a.k.a. how to follow the letter but not the spirit).

To address the root cause, work out why bad motives exist (what compels people to violate the spirit in the first place) and eliminate those.

Re: Most of the world’s grain is not eaten by humans

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is not business, thus is vandalism. Its the same as if i go and rip apart public street furniture and sell them as metal scrap for profit.

Pillaging, exploitation, and destruction of the commons leading to ecological and societal degradation and eventual collapse has been documented as what capitalism does since there was a thing called capitalism There's still plenty of boosters who will use fallacious arguments defending it that were just as tired hundreds of years ago. Some people let their aspirations of greed blind them from what's clearly happenin…

Replacing capitalism with X will not eliminate the underlying socio-psychological factors that push humans to secure themselves at the expense of other humans and the environment. All capitalism does is give participants a high degree of agency that reveals these factors (and that’s also why regulation is needed—the market doesn’t work well when malicious actors exploit information asymmetry).

In long term, we should understand and alleviate the origin of that chronic desire to win while others lose—however, replacing capitalism with X, depending on the degree of autocracy in X, may just obscure them instead, which seems counter to that goal.

Re: Most of the world’s grain is not eaten by humans

#223

The charts in the article are PNG images. Yet the text in the charts is separate and is superimposed on the chart in precise position. How is this done? Is the journalist manually CSS-positioning the text? Is there a library? An internal Economist tool?

Asked a couple of days ago about a different article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31873761

Re: Most of the world’s grain is not eaten by humans

#224
post #199

The grass family contains over 9,000 species distributed throughout the world. Of that, 35 have been cultivated as cereals. Of these, the following are important today: Barley, Corn, Goat grass, Millet, Oats, Rice, Sorghum, and Wheat. Of the important grains and/or cereals listed above, only corn (maize) is a New World native. Corn is an important member of the grass family. Corn (Zea mays) was domesticated from a wi…

>Of these, the following are important today: Barley, Corn, Goat grass, Millet, Oats, Rice, Sorghum, and Wheat. What about Buckwheat

Buckwheat isn't a cereal or even a grass.

Re: Most of the world’s grain is not eaten by humans

#226
post #194
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Irrigation lets you grow corn or other crops just about anywhere. The availability of irrigation is largely a solvable problem. In the US for example the east coast, Alaska etc gets plenty of fresh water which just ends up in the ocean.

Irrigation lets you grow corn or other crops just about anywhere. No, it does not. In this context, 'grow' means 'in a usable fashion'. Rocky, hilly soil isn't tillable, is impossible to harvest en mass, and results in poor outcomes. It's almost like you've never farmed, and are making statements based upon theory, instead of real world usage cases. Whatever agenda you have, please stop trying to claim that all soil…

Not all crops involve tilling soil, some orchards are in extremely rocky hilly areas. It’s one of the reasons olive trees are so associated with Italy.

Anyway, preparing an area for cultivation is a one time cost. People actually grow crops in areas you consider impossible because someone already put the effort possibly thousands of years ago even if it’s not currently economically viable.

Terraces also work in hilly areas, though building them is expensive. Removing stones from fields is the origin of field stone houses and quite a few stone fences at property lines. The degree of effort required can be huge but at the extreme end people plant orchards in areas that are covered in boulders.

For places where none of that effort is worth it, lumber is still a viable crop as long as it gets enough rain.

Re: Most of the world’s grain is not eaten by humans

#228
post #176
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That won't put the water back. Revenge is just the final form of prioritizing the comfort (or discomfort) of a handful of bad actors over the well-being of the other 99.9999% of the world. Punishing the perpetrators won’t put the water back in the same way punishing a murderer won’t bring the victim back. We don’t punish to make right. We punish to deter.

Are you suggesting the farmers are criminal? Unless they subverted the democratic institutions to benefit from bedrock water, punishing them IS the crime.

under that definition the upper echelons of nestle are pretty certain to be criminals, so yes

Re: Most of the world’s grain is not eaten by humans

#229
> Some grain by-products, such as maize husks, are unsuitable for human food. And feeding grain to animals does generate food for people indirectly, in the form of milk, meat and eggs. However, this process is highly wasteful. For every 100 calories of grain fed to a cow, just three emerge as beef. Along with other feed crops and pasture, rearing animals also uses land that could produce human food.

But we don't only need calories. In fact we already produce and eat many more calories than we need (but we distribute them unevenly so that a third of the world eats too many and 2/3s not enough). The reason we feed all this grain to animals is so that they turn it into nutrient-dense meat, dairy and eggs. Those are rich in micronutrients (vitamins and minerals) that we can't get as well from grains (or not at all like B12 vitamin).

So maybe farming looks "inefficient" if you consider only calories, but when you consider nutrients in general, meat (including seafood), dairy and eggs are actually the most efficient source of those we need to stay healthy and thrive.

But even if we only count calories, the amount of cropland that we would free for rewilding if we stopped farming meat completely and produced no meat from ruminants, no pork or poultry, no dairy, and no eggs, is miniscule:

https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets#more-plant-based-d...

In short, we'd go from 1.17 billion ha of cropland for farming animals and growing crops, to using 1 billion ha of cropland.

That's a tiny change and it would most likely quickly need to grow as the global population increases. And it's such a tiny change because most of the land used to farm animals, or grow grains for animal feed, is not cropland, but pasture, which is for the most part not suitable for growing crops.

Re: Most of the world’s grain is not eaten by humans

#230

In 70 something years we went from 60% forest coverage of earth's land mass to 30%. I can't help but wonder how it would be without any animal agriculture.

It would look about the same:

https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets#more-plant-based-d...

The article that I linked above looks at how much cropland we'd need to feed the entire world population if we gave up on farming animals completely. It turns out that we would end up with about the same amount of cropland, but that's only to match the current production in calories (and nothing else). Assuming the human population continued to grow, we'd have to use even more land to grow crops.

There is of course a lot of pasture that could be turned back to forest, or left to turn back to forest, on its own. But not all pasture is ancient forests. I have no idea how much forest we would regain by ceasing to feed animals on pature.

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