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Ask HN: Any certification that is worth it? Legitimately helped your career?

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Re: Ask HN: Any certification that is worth it? Legitimately helped your career?

#381

Post by jasonladuke0311 »

joeax wrote: post #297
mudrockbestgirl wrote: post #49

This will not apply to all companies, but for our hiring decisions certs have an adverse effect. If someone puts many certifications on their resume my expectations are lower and I likely won't consider them for interviews. It's a negative signal in my experience. Your time is better spent working on side projects, contributing to open source, writing a blog, etc. I.e. do real-world stuff instead of wasting time on a…

That's funny, because I've always felt the opposite when evaluating candidates. If a candidate comes in saying certs are "trash" and "pointless" it usually looks less favorable. It signals an unwilling to learn and/or strive for continuous improvement. Certs are not the end all/be all but they help round our your knowledge and open your eyes to things you never knew. As far as side-projects and open source contributi…

> If a candidate comes in saying certs are "trash" and "pointless" it usually looks less favorable. It signals an unwilling to learn and/or strive for continuous improvement.

Or it signals that the candidate would rather learn hands-on than take useless multiple choice tests.

Re: Ask HN: Any certification that is worth it? Legitimately helped your career?

#382

Post by gzer0 »

akoshodi wrote: post #345
gzer0 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got my AWS solutions architect associate and professional, they expire in 3 years. Azure is the worst offender, offering certs that expire in ONE year. No thanks. Google certs expire after 2 years.

At least you don't have to pay for renewals of Microsoft role-based certifications. "You can renew your Microsoft Certifications by simply passing a free, unproctored, online renewal assessment on Microsoft Learn, instead of retaking exams. The assessments measure the skills you need to remain up to date in your job role. They’re shorter than the original exams because they focus only on the latest technology changes…

I genuinely did not know this, thanks for the info. Unproctored? Wow, either the exam material must be insanely difficult or they just don't care. Interesting.

Re: Ask HN: Any certification that is worth it? Legitimately helped your career?

#383

Post by wolfv »

robcohen wrote: post #11

I collect a lot of certs for fun, but most have not been helpful. I still like to collect them anyway. I think OSCP was the most legitimately useful in tech https://www.offensive-security.com/pwk-oscp/ PMP has been useful to take on Project Manager roles, but really PrM roles aren't all that exciting to begin with. Still helps when you want to run your own projects. I'm currently studying to be a certified parliament…

Nutrition Certificate program is interesting and personally useful: https://ecornell.cornell.edu/certificates/nutrition/plant-ba...

Re: Ask HN: Any certification that is worth it? Legitimately helped your career?

#384

Post by SkittyDog »

ghaff wrote: post #269
leeoniya wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

to add to this, if you dont actually use your SCUBA or first responder or pilot skills on a regular basis, those certs are worthless at best, and dangerous at worst.

I don't have wilderness first responder but I do have wilderness first aid and keep it more or less up to date. I wouldn't try something complicated like a traction splint unless there was really no other option and possibly even then--not sure they even teach it in WFA any longer. But, for the most part having a weekend class to refresh a lot of first aid isn't a bad thing even if you don't practice it all the time,…

Most of the wilderness FA certs have a 3-year expiration. IDK if this was always true, but it's definitely a thing now.

If you're using your certification to qualify for a professional or volunteer position, then they usually defer to the expiry period set by the issuer of the certification.

In my experience, basically nobody gets any first aid practice, in between re-certifications. And these are perishable skills, so I wouldn't trust in the ability of most people to execute anything complex after even a year has gone by... But that has to be balanced against the cost of re-training. WMR is usually an 80-hour course (IIRC) and re-certs more like 30-40? That's an absurd time investment for most working people.

Re: Ask HN: Any certification that is worth it? Legitimately helped your career?

#386

Post by shkkmo »

mvid wrote: post #263
shkkmo wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thank that is a crappy attitude. If I am on a dive and there is a lost diver or some other incident in the area, I want to have the skills to be able to help. I would note that "asked or expected" is different than "required", so there really is no downside to doing a rescue diver class or a divemaster program. In fact, I highly recommend it and it was a lot of fun.

There is a negative, though, and I have experienced it diving. Diving is often a razor thin or no margin business, and selling cert courses can be easy money. Few scuba schools will fail students who are not up to snuff, because they might have to issue a refund or endure bad reviews. Some of these certifications will give incompetent divers a false sense of ability, and in an emergency situation, rather than staying…

The solution to that would seem to be recommending that people choose dive schools that take their Job seriously and don't pass people who haven't mastered the skills. Recommending against getting training is throwing the baby out with the bath water.

If you have no experience, just a cert, then you should stay out of the way with those with experience and help as requested.

However, with many dive accidents, you don't have the luxury of waiting for a more experienced diver and having that training will give you a better chance of saving your buddy's life.

Re: Ask HN: Any certification that is worth it? Legitimately helped your career?

#387

Post by shkkmo »

leeoniya wrote: post #315
shkkmo wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thank that is a crappy attitude. If I am on a dive and there is a lost diver or some other incident in the area, I want to have the skills to be able to help. I would note that "asked or expected" is different than "required", so there really is no downside to doing a rescue diver class or a divemaster program. In fact, I highly recommend it and it was a lot of fun.

unless you have actual experience in helping, your "help" can quickly become a liability, no matter how well intentioned. not to say you shouldnt get a rescue cert, but that alone is insufficient if you have no actual and recent or long term experience.

On the flip side, if you have never tried to rescue an unconscious diver and have to do it for the first time without any training, you are not going to have the luxury of making all the mistakes you will make in the rescue class.

While a cert is no substitute for experience, if you are going to gain that experience, it is much better to have a cert than not.

Re: Ask HN: Any certification that is worth it? Legitimately helped your career?

#388

Post by ElemenoPicuares »

Ruphin wrote: post #364
ElemenoPicuares wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you and have been in your shoes. Hiring is hard, and the steps to hire people ethically are pretty nebulous, which makes it much harder. Especially when the outcome would be the same in many cases, it does seem awfully impractical. But that's the problem with bias in general, though— It's always a matter of practicality. It's been some time since most discrimination deliberately stymied people with a backgroun…

I think it's an interesting point to make, and it's important to understand that this type of selection is a form of bias. But I think the comparison you are making here with law enforcement using bias towards people of color is not exactly right. There is a difference in signaling by choice (what to put on your resume) vs signaling by nature (skin color). I think we agree that there are some things we cannot change…

The whole point is that disadvantaged folks are more likely to use certificates to get a foot in the door and economic hardship in the US is not evenly represented among skin colors— not even close. Folks who don’t natively have the right accent, word usage, cultural reference points and demeanor to seem “credible” and be a “good fit” for internships or jr positions don’t have a lot of options to obtain that credibility. Things like certificates and associates degrees from for-profit colleges might be their only feasible option regardless of how smart or talented they are. Dismissing that entire group out of hand because it saves time is ignoring the economic and cultural realities of who you’re dismissing by doing so. You can separate the cultural implications of nearly any subconscious bias if your analysis is shallow enough.

Re: Ask HN: Any certification that is worth it? Legitimately helped your career?

#389

Post by abeyer »

_8j50 wrote: post #356
abeyer wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your frustration is at least understandable, but personal attacks because you disagree with someone's hiring process are not appropriate, not helpful, and just going to make it even harder for you to get hired if anyone in a decision making role sees them. I'll also echo what others have said, in that certs are commonly used by people trying to compensate for a lack of actual skills. That's not always true, but it is…

You misunderstand, I have no problem getting hired but I know how hard it was to even get a call at first because of jerks like the person I was commenting to. I normally would agree that a personal attack isn't warranted but what they said is worthy of one. They are affecting people's lives based on bullshit correlations and instinct? And they work in tech? Really, my remarks should be taken as a response to their d…

> You misunderstand

No, I think if your response to getting called out on making personal attacks is to double down on it, I understand quite well, but don't think we'll ever see eye to eye. I wish you the best.

Re: Ask HN: Any certification that is worth it? Legitimately helped your career?

#390

Post by ElemenoPicuares »

a4isms wrote: post #360
ElemenoPicuares wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful about the bias in single-metric gatekeeping strategies like this. Contributing to open source projects, having side projects, et al are pursuits of leisure. Certificates are possibly the only foot in the door for folks working multiple jobs with kids, etc. and the government often pays the tuition for low income folks. Once you’ve got them, even if you’re more established, it would be crazy to leave them o…

> Contributing to open source projects, having side projects, et al are pursuits of leisure. This is an old anti-pattern: tests that sound like they're about competence, but they're actually about "culture fit." Example: Speaking at conferences. This sounds like social proof you know something about the industry, and have communication skills to boot. In many cases it actually means you are good at networking, have l…

Yes. I do think it’s important to point out that folks using these “in my experience, people like this tend to be bad” type of hiring metrics probably aren’t deliberately discriminating and often change their approach after realizing it’s problematic. Obviously grown adults are accountable for their own actions, but not training, supporting, or monitoring folks making hiring decisions is more of an institutional failure than a personal failure.
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