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Fighting crime by checking buildings, not suspects

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Re: Fighting crime by checking buildings, not suspects

#51
post #39
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is absolute no way "News Nation" is going to get enough dedicated subscribers to subsidize their reporting. That’s exactly why there should be a Spotify for text.

Are you describing Apple News plus?

Maybe, I haven’t used it. Is it good?

Re: Fighting crime by checking buildings, not suspects

#52

> For example, in Kansas City a bus stop at a particular intersection was attracting drug sales and loitering. So the police called the local transportation authority and had the bus stop moved. > “I think within a week, maybe not even that, that immediately cut down on the loitering and foot traffic,” Capt. Jonas Baughman told the local press. As an outsider, I have no words for how absurd this is to me. The fact th…

Isn’t loitering and foot traffic code for drug dealers selling drugs illegally to their customers?

Outside the context of crime: loitering, yes, foot traffic, not really. It's possible this particular phrase is a euphemism used in crime reporting, I don't know, but if it is I don't know why they wouldn't just say "officers no longer suspected dealers were using this place" / "informants/word on the street was that distribution moved to xyz ... "

That sentence read strangely to me as well; I think foot traffic is great and my favorite places in America are built around promoting it.

Re: Fighting crime by checking buildings, not suspects

#53
post #36

Five Points was once the worst neighborhood in the United States. It was razed and replaced with Columbus Park. Now its a safe center of the community in Manhattan's Chinatown. Gangs in Chicago were concentrated into a few high-rises owned by the public housing administration until the 1990s. The buildings were razed in an effort to curtail the rampant crime within them. The unintended consequence was that the once u…

Surely you are not arguing that crime increased in frequency in Chicago (or any other American city) after 1990, because the statistics all indicate the opposite. Violent crime had fallen by half from 1990 rates by 2000, and now stands at less than 1/3rd the 1990 rate. Some fairly famous research indicates that homicide in Chicago is still highly concentrated, in real geographic distance and in social graph distance. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3910040/pdf/AJP...

Re: Fighting crime by checking buildings, not suspects

#54
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For certain classes of crime, pushing the criminals out also increases the crime rate. I recall reading about a study on this where pushing criminals out of a 'bad neighborhood' caused the crime rate in that area to drop, but the rate in two adjacent neighborhoods went up by 60% of the drop in the 'bad' one.

That would be an argument against any attempt to clean up crime that wasn't done at a greater-city-wide scale. And maybe that really is true - the only genuinely effective measures you can take to reduce crime have to be applied to a sufficiently wide area. I'm not sure if we have enough data points to draw that conclusion though.

Could be. It may also be a factor of whether the high crime area is the first or the last occurence, since in the case of it being the first, you cause a diaspora. Whereas if it's the last, then you're squeezing.

Re: Fighting crime by checking buildings, not suspects

#55
I'm a believer in the idea that better places lead to less crime, but I hope these governments are taking a quantitative, evidence-based approach to the subject. The article mentions streetlights, which will come up almost inevitably in these conversations, but there's really no evidence for the idea that light lowers crime, and there's plenty of cases where bright lighting is associated with higher crime. Nobody can prove that is causal, but criminals do need light to see what they are doing, so it might be. https://kinder.rice.edu/sites/default/files/documents/Kinder...

Re: Fighting crime by checking buildings, not suspects

#56

Is it just my imagination, or does it seem like there's a weirdly quasi-commercial element around the push for "risk-based policing"? On one hand it's presented as simply being a scientific(-ish) approach that can be used to get better results than traditional methods, but on the other hand it's treated almost like a brand name, with a book titled "Risk-Based Policing" having an official website at riskbasedpolicing.…

Consulting and training are money makers. Like the guys who teach officers they are wolves protecting the sheep, and to see all people as threats - you think they're doing that for free?

Re: Fighting crime by checking buildings, not suspects

#57
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t loitering and foot traffic code for drug dealers selling drugs illegally to their customers?

Outside the context of crime: loitering, yes, foot traffic, not really. It's possible this particular phrase is a euphemism used in crime reporting, I don't know, but if it is I don't know why they wouldn't just say "officers no longer suspected dealers were using this place" / "informants/word on the street was that distribution moved to xyz ... " That sentence read strangely to me as well; I think foot traffic is g…

I think it’s both a euphemism and perhaps it’s an area that no longer has regular foot traffic (closed businesses, vacant houses,etc) and the foot traffic was the clientele.

I say this as someone who lives in a high crime area.

Re: Fighting crime by checking buildings, not suspects

#58

> For example, in Kansas City a bus stop at a particular intersection was attracting drug sales and loitering. So the police called the local transportation authority and had the bus stop moved. > “I think within a week, maybe not even that, that immediately cut down on the loitering and foot traffic,” Capt. Jonas Baughman told the local press. As an outsider, I have no words for how absurd this is to me. The fact th…

I thought that line was going to end with cops paying more attention to the corner. You know, doing their jobs.

Re: Fighting crime by checking buildings, not suspects

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's generally people hanging out that don't have good intentions in mind, which might include drug transactions.

I imagine since in the US, no one walks and there is nothing of interest outside, anyone who is out standing around is probably engaging in some criminal activity. What a sad society where this is the case.

It’s often in areas that had factories or businesses that are closed and there is nothing but vacant buildings lefts for the underworld and marginalized to live until the next development.

Re: Fighting crime by checking buildings, not suspects

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe next time you see random post on Twitter you should research it before sharing. In the case, ruling had to do with an assault and the right to sue, not warrantless entry; victim was an informant and reported a crime, law enforcement responded, which is completely legal, unless I am missing something; obviously assaulting someone is not.

> In the lawsuit against Egbert, Boule argued Egbert had retaliated against him in violation of his First Amendment rights and that he had entered his private property, refused to leave and pushed him to the ground violating his Fourth Amendment rights. As far as I understand it the decision does not contest that Boule's 4th amendment rights were violated, but it doesn't extend the right to sue a federal officer from…

You didn’t address that Boule reported a crime on his property and law enforcement respond, which is probably cause; that is no warrant was required and once law enforcement has it, they have the right to enter the property regardless if the property owner requests they don’t, which in this case was oddly also Boule.
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