Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

sdfo.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 215 posts

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#61

Post by taeric »

frostburg wrote: post #22
taeric wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious. I've never seen anything to make me think other cultures are that different in this regard. Would be interested in learning more.

Well, terrible recent developments notwithstanding, Russians revere the authors of their literary canon. Arguing that a successful athlete is more important than Tolstoj or Pushkin would generally be ridiculed. Even here in Italy, despite an unhealthy national obsession with association football, if considering the whole body of society nobody is held in higher public regard than esteemed painters, poets, writers etc…

That doesn't seem too off to USA. Famous authors are still respected. Most authors aren't.

I also feel that modern authors aren't given the same treatment.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#62

Post by dotancohen »

ta8645 wrote: post #52
quanto wrote: post #12

She said dont be scared Charlie you done so much with so little I think you deserv it most of all. Charlie was a man with a good heart, motivation, and self-awareness, and yet the world was not so kind to him. The story reminds me of something I read somewhere: be kind to less intelligent people -- the world is already not so kind to them.

There is a prevailing contempt these days for less intelligent and less educated people, that is very unseemly and disheartening.

Such contempt is not unique to "these days". And for what it's worth, there is no less contempt for the educated, never mind the intelligent, among those subcultures who praise and harvest ignorance.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#63

Post by taeric »

solardev wrote: post #39
taeric wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious. I've never seen anything to make me think other cultures are that different in this regard. Would be interested in learning more.

In some East Asian cultures, there isn't really a concept for a "nerd" (or conversely, a "jock"). People just learn what they can, and exercise in whatever ways they can. It's recognized that there are different ability levels in both, but they're not considered opposite parts of a spectrum. If you try to translate "nerd" to Chinese, for example ( https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4505 ), there isn't really a…

I don't know. This feels like it is leaning too heavily on single words. Translate aunt, and see that that is similarly difficult.

Still, I can't and don't reject the idea. Would love to see a comprehensive study. At a personal level, I don't remember these things in school, either. They were archetypes, but nobody was a solid archetype. Such that I find it hard to believe you don't see folks through some of these lenses.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#64

Post by solardev »

pmoriarty wrote: post #58
solardev wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One layer deeper, it was also illustrative of how the supposedly smarter people (the researchers and teacher) also reacted to his journey, and of who's "allowed" to be smart without being perceived as threatening. It's not as straightforward as just "jocks vs nerds", but how the scientists work with each other, how the teacher treats him vs the researchers, how the lab mouse is alternately thought of either disposabl…

"American culture isn't just athletic, it's also quite shallow: everyone projects success and happiness but suffer deeper down and are afraid to introspect, share vulnerabilities, or form meaningful communities." There isn't just one American culture, there are many... with people not infrequently belonging to many subcultures. We should be wary of painting America (or any other country) with one broad brush.

Sure, but you can group and subdivide cultures however you like. There are subcultures within subcultures, yet at the same time there is a broadly American culture and maybe a broadly Western one, etc. Like species, there's no precise test for a unit of culture, it's just different zoom levels... each level of grouping or subdivision has its uses.

Relative to other national identities I've had experience with, I believe that Americans in particular are quite obsessed with aesthetics, everything from hair color to deodorants to artificially aligning and whitening teeth, to identifying with musical subgenres as a method of personal belonging and appearance. If there is no American culture then there is no Americana, which I don't believe, and would be a great loss to the cultural richness of the modern era... everything from Blues to bluegrass to Blue's Clues to blue jeans.

American culture has a richness that's hard to appreciate or even recognize these days, when it's so embroiled in modern culture wars, but it's definitely there and definitely distinct from, say, Japanese culture of the postwar years or 1800s France.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#65

Post by mati365 »

blader wrote: post #43

Ted Chiang wrote a short story inspired by Flowers for Algernon ("Understand") that explores what might happen if a guy just never stopped getting smarter: https://web.archive.org/web/20140527121332/http://www.infini... I love Flowers for Algernon, but Understand is my favorite short story of all time.

Mine too but I was always wondering why haven't the main character mind been used by scientist to improving method used in book?

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#66

Post by solardev »

taeric wrote: post #63
solardev wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some East Asian cultures, there isn't really a concept for a "nerd" (or conversely, a "jock"). People just learn what they can, and exercise in whatever ways they can. It's recognized that there are different ability levels in both, but they're not considered opposite parts of a spectrum. If you try to translate "nerd" to Chinese, for example ( https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4505 ), there isn't really a…

I don't know. This feels like it is leaning too heavily on single words. Translate aunt, and see that that is similarly difficult. Still, I can't and don't reject the idea. Would love to see a comprehensive study. At a personal level, I don't remember these things in school, either. They were archetypes, but nobody was a solid archetype. Such that I find it hard to believe you don't see folks through some of these le…

Words (or in their case, characters & the concepts) partially define culture, though. If you don't have an easy word for something, whether it's a personality or a color, it's a foreign idea to you. Sure, someone can translate it for you and tell you what it means, but it's not the same as having it be a part of your culture. Someone can explain "tea time" to me, but as an American, it will always be a Britishism even though I understand the concepts of tea and gathering and hours. It's just not a part of my cultural existence.

FWIW, anecdotally, I grew up in a culture much like what I described, and it wasn't until I moved to America that I learned what "nerd" meant. Nobody around me in childhood ever made that distinction. Similarly, I found it odd that Americans identified by musical genres in high school. But sure, these things would be fascinating thing to ethnographically!

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#67

Post by throwaway879080 »

quanto wrote: post #12

She said dont be scared Charlie you done so much with so little I think you deserv it most of all. Charlie was a man with a good heart, motivation, and self-awareness, and yet the world was not so kind to him. The story reminds me of something I read somewhere: be kind to less intelligent people -- the world is already not so kind to them.

No post body was provided.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#68

Post by amai »

It is the story of growing up as a kid, then becoming a smart adult, and then growing old and stupid again condensed to a much shorter time frame. That is why everyone can relate to it in some way.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#69

Post by dvt »

quanto wrote: post #12

She said dont be scared Charlie you done so much with so little I think you deserv it most of all. Charlie was a man with a good heart, motivation, and self-awareness, and yet the world was not so kind to him. The story reminds me of something I read somewhere: be kind to less intelligent people -- the world is already not so kind to them.

> be kind to less intelligent people -- the world is already not so kind to them.

This feels weirdly patronizing. Why not just treat every person with humanity and respect and be kind to them regardless of any particular trait or lack thereof?

Post reply on HN