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Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

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Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#51

Post by photochemsyn »

red_admiral wrote: post #35
photochemsyn wrote: post #8

There's something curiously American about Flowers for Algernon... our general popular culture tends to value physical achievement (the athlete) more than mental achievement (the nerd/geek). So here's the story of how the co-workers/peers of a mentally disabled individual, Charlie, (who they ridicule initially) react to the reversal of that disability (with suspicion and distrust) and then the re-imposition of that d…

> our general popular culture tends to value physical achievement (the athlete) more than mental achievement (the nerd/geek) Isn't that changing, possibly for the worse - don't you now need a college degree for almost anything above the lowest tiers?

I think there's been significant recent pushback on that trend, with more widespread recognition that skilled trades, vocational school, and non-college routes don't automatically imply second-class status (particularly considering the high costs and debt college grads get saddled with).

However, as far as 'elite colleges', there is this unhealthy trend towards a more 19th-century British posh/prole divide in the educational system, but that's been going on for some time. That's not about quality of education so much as elite networking schemes and the creation of an American aristocracy.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#52

Post by ta8645 »

quanto wrote: post #12

She said dont be scared Charlie you done so much with so little I think you deserv it most of all. Charlie was a man with a good heart, motivation, and self-awareness, and yet the world was not so kind to him. The story reminds me of something I read somewhere: be kind to less intelligent people -- the world is already not so kind to them.

There is a prevailing contempt these days for less intelligent and less educated people, that is very unseemly and disheartening.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#53

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

quanto wrote: post #12

She said dont be scared Charlie you done so much with so little I think you deserv it most of all. Charlie was a man with a good heart, motivation, and self-awareness, and yet the world was not so kind to him. The story reminds me of something I read somewhere: be kind to less intelligent people -- the world is already not so kind to them.

Not just intelligence. We can easily find reasons to feel that people should be shunned/excluded/shut out.

I think there was a posting here, a couple of days ago, about the pleasure folks get, from bullying members of an "outgroup." Heck, I had an exchange with someone on this very platform, earlier today, who ended up "going there" (I left them screeching into the void. It seemed to make them feel better). It's really quite difficult to resist getting drawn into that kind of stuff. Really visceral. Takes real effort to tear myself away.

It's very primitive. The desire to shun "other" is embedded into our BIOS. Difficult to counter. Also, the desire to fight, when we perceive that "other" is somehow encroaching on "our" turf.

I've had to do a lot of personal navel-gazing in the last couple of years. Had to face some rather unpleasant personal truths. I have had to let go of a lot of cherished little turd dolls that I've been clutching to my bosom.

Fortunately, I have a framework for that kind of work.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#55

Post by johnny_reilly »

This book changed me. I was an idle eight year old, and my school didn't give us homework to do. So my father decided to set me homework of his own devising, which on one occasion was reading Flowers for Algernon.

I was moved by the story of a man who had little natural ability, straining to make the best of what he had. Then becoming smarter than everyone around him, and then what follows.

There's many things to take from this story. I took away that we should make the best of what we have. To do otherwise is to miss out. Never take what you have for granted. Everything is a blessing; don't waste it.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#56

Post by uniqueuid »

sydthrowaway wrote: post #47
uniqueuid wrote: post #2

Despite all my rational efforts; all the maths and research - there is a speck of insight that only poetry and literature can reach. It's irritating and comforting at the same time.

All the world’s combined poetry and literature won’t get you to the moon, or solve the world’s energy crisis. It’s all a bunch of tosh - don’t stop building.

I never said that poetry gets you to the moon.

But when you’re there - how do you cope with the heat death of the universe, or the loss of your close ones, or how do you justify being there? How do you find joy in your mornings, and how do you empathise with others, the living and the once-living?

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#57

Post by uniqueuid »

blader wrote: post #43

Ted Chiang wrote a short story inspired by Flowers for Algernon ("Understand") that explores what might happen if a guy just never stopped getting smarter: https://web.archive.org/web/20140527121332/http://www.infini... I love Flowers for Algernon, but Understand is my favorite short story of all time.

Chiang is great. His collection of short stories - exhalation - is a ton of fun.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#58

Post by pmoriarty »

solardev wrote: post #33
photochemsyn wrote: post #8

There's something curiously American about Flowers for Algernon... our general popular culture tends to value physical achievement (the athlete) more than mental achievement (the nerd/geek). So here's the story of how the co-workers/peers of a mentally disabled individual, Charlie, (who they ridicule initially) react to the reversal of that disability (with suspicion and distrust) and then the re-imposition of that d…

One layer deeper, it was also illustrative of how the supposedly smarter people (the researchers and teacher) also reacted to his journey, and of who's "allowed" to be smart without being perceived as threatening. It's not as straightforward as just "jocks vs nerds", but how the scientists work with each other, how the teacher treats him vs the researchers, how the lab mouse is alternately thought of either disposabl…

"American culture isn't just athletic, it's also quite shallow: everyone projects success and happiness but suffer deeper down and are afraid to introspect, share vulnerabilities, or form meaningful communities."

There isn't just one American culture, there are many... with people not infrequently belonging to many subcultures. We should be wary of painting America (or any other country) with one broad brush.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#59

Post by marginalia_nu »

sydthrowaway wrote: post #47
uniqueuid wrote: post #2

Despite all my rational efforts; all the maths and research - there is a speck of insight that only poetry and literature can reach. It's irritating and comforting at the same time.

All the world’s combined poetry and literature won’t get you to the moon, or solve the world’s energy crisis. It’s all a bunch of tosh - don’t stop building.

All the mathematics in the world can't tell you why you would want to go to the moon.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#60

Post by pmoriarty »

dekhn wrote: post #28
photochemsyn wrote: post #8

There's something curiously American about Flowers for Algernon... our general popular culture tends to value physical achievement (the athlete) more than mental achievement (the nerd/geek). So here's the story of how the co-workers/peers of a mentally disabled individual, Charlie, (who they ridicule initially) react to the reversal of that disability (with suspicion and distrust) and then the re-imposition of that d…

Not exactly a direct response, but see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron which imho is the best statement for gifted education that I have ever seen. It anticipates the current situation better than any speculative fiction.

Why do you think that? Exceptional people are highly valued in today's society... Examples don't even need to be mentioned.. we all know their names.

Harrison Bergeron still seems to be firmly in the realm of science fiction.

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