I Finally Found a Solid Debian Tablet: The Surface Go 2 • Hacker News Board

Re: I Finally Found a Solid Debian Tablet: The Surface Go 2

#131

Post by eropple » Sat, Jun 25, 2022, 3:27 PM UTC

jeroenhd wrote: post #111

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which makes sense. If manufacturers designed laptops exclusively for Linux—only writing Linux drivers and rarely even testing Windows during product development—how well do we think Windows would run? Hardware designed to run one operating system isn't necessarily going to perform well with a different operating system, and expecting otherwise of every arbitrary machine on store shelves is unrealistic. Prospective bu…

You can see with the Steam Deck. Valve is slowly releasing drivers over time but in early stages Windows was inefficient, sound didn't work or didn't work well, sleep wasn't snappy, the list goes on. It had all the problems your average Linux install will encounter without the enthusiast-written drivers to work around manufacturers' lack of support. That said, the Steam Deck seems to be the first non-enthusiast devic…

I'd say pretty confidently that Lenovo has done quite a bit of caring over the years. I've had a bunch of T-series ThinkPads that have been super good under Linux.

Re: I Finally Found a Solid Debian Tablet: The Surface Go 2

#132

Post by eropple » Sat, Jun 25, 2022, 3:29 PM UTC

phren0logy wrote: post #129

Dudemeister_ wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried an LG Gram? I got myself one, it is one of the closest laptops to a macbook air M1: - extremely light (my 14 inch is a little under 1kg), you'll absolutely feel the difference when holding it vs holding a macbook air M1, and it is very significant. - great screen - amazing keyboard - the fan is very quiet, but the laptop can get a bit warm under load - the touchpad is lacking on windows but is amazing…

That battery life is impressive! Thunderbolt 4 and a better selection of ports than the MacBook Air M1, also. But, as great as the screen is, looks like it falls short of the 12" MacBook screen. Same 8GB of RAM in the base model as the M1, but memory bandwidth not the same. And the processor isn't going to keep up. I mean, it's nice, but I picked the base model M1 Air about a year ago for $750 - still seems like the…

I quite like my work M1 Pro, but (to help coworkers with Mac problems while I was using a ThinkPad) I had an M1 Air 8GB from work for a while and I honestly found it really pretty bad because of the RAM limits. It seems like there's a floor against which MacOS bumps pretty hard if you want to use the machine for development-ish stuff and it reacts really poorly to memory starvation if you get ahead of yourself.

Having 16GB and up, though, an M1's fantastic. If I had to be resource constrained, though, I think I'd prefer something that handled Linux well.

Re: I Finally Found a Solid Debian Tablet: The Surface Go 2

#133

Post by bittercynic » Sat, Jun 25, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

bharrisonit wrote: post #118

hdlothia wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dell XPS developer edition that comes with linux pre installed has worked great for me. What are your complaints?

I've run debian on a non-dev xps 13 for years trouble-free. My biggest gripe is docking station compatibility with the Dell TB16 which, to be fair, is largely own fault. Suspending the laptop while connected to three ext displays and input devices, then spinning it back up before re-connection produces some gnarly results.

Arch linux on non-dev xps 13 here. Install went smoothly and it's been working very well for the past few years. Admittedly, the trackpad is not as awesome as Apple's, but it's adequate by my standards.

Re: I Finally Found a Solid Debian Tablet: The Surface Go 2

#134

Post by linmob » Sat, Jun 25, 2022, 3:38 PM UTC

solardev wrote: post #125

jlkuester7 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not disagreeing with you per we, but I will note that the author may be judging the tablet as compared to other mobile devices running Linux. With the exception of the PinePhone and a few other devices Linux on mobile devices is truly painful/broken in most cases (and in ways that make this tablet look almost fully featured...).

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, but isn't Android already Linux? What's the advantage of installing another distro? I thought the whole point of Android is to make a curated touch friendly Linux experience. If you want a more traditional distro, wouldn't a touchscreen laptop (yoga etc.) be a better choice, if only for x86 support?

Android is running a Linux kernel, yes. But, as an enthusiast GNU+Linux desktop user you'll find that you can't do your linuxy stuff on Android - sure, termux does a lot, but it's just not the same.

The Surface Go 2 that the article is about, is an x86_64 device - I recently aquired one and it's really quite nice with Linux in my limited testing. The biggest difficulty with a standard desktop GNU+Linux on a tablet is that most distributions are not optimized for easy tablet use - KDE Neon User Edition e.g. does not come with a virtual keyboard preinstalled.

On Yoga style laptops: Well, they are easier to get started with, but they often are quite a big bigger and having those keys on the back all the time... It's doable, but if you want a "nice 10" tablet" experience these devices are just not what you will want: Too large, too thick, too heavy.

Re: I Finally Found a Solid Debian Tablet: The Surface Go 2

#135

Post by squarefoot » Sat, Jun 25, 2022, 3:40 PM UTC

hardwaresofton wrote: post #91

highwaylights wrote: post #46

It doesn’t sound solid reading the author’s post. - EFI didn’t work. - The camera doesn’t work. - The SSD is too small so needed to be topped up with a MicroSD (awful). - Not lap-friendly for travelling (type cover). - Windows 11 needed to be kept around despite not being used (and sometimes rewrote the boot menu, if I’m reading this correctly). This sounds like a downright painful experience. I’m not sure why you’d…

I agree, the hurdle is too high for most still, but I’m expecting a System76 tablet or Framework Tablet. It’s only a matter of time till one of the linux-first companies does it, and it’s been a 30 year wait already, what’s 1/2/3 more. Well actually I guess there’s PineTab[0] but something with better specs is bound to come around [0]: https://www.pine64.org/pinetab/

> Well actually I guess there’s PineTab[0] but something with better specs is bound to come around

I monitor their news section almost daily to follow the development of their devices, especially the PineNote and PineTab. I've almost given up about the PinePhone however because of my reading difficulties with smallish screens; Having no needs for a smartphone, I've found that a 4G capable dumbphone working as hotspot plus this Thinkpad are the perfect pair.

Re: I Finally Found a Solid Debian Tablet: The Surface Go 2

#136

Post by chrisseaton » Sat, Jun 25, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

vanviegen wrote: post #127

chrisseaton wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I teach a university course for which we require students to install Linux on their Windows laptops Can’t they use a normal cloud instance or a VM?

Our first year consists of a pretty intense dive into programming, with many assignments for which we provide starter material. And for that we want all students to run a predictable environment. Also, dual booting helps some students to cleanly separate course work from gaming. :-) A few students (those whose laptops we could not convince to run Linux) work within a VM, but that experience is comparatively miserable…

You should try some cloud development environments - could give people a completely predictable environment.

Re: I Finally Found a Solid Debian Tablet: The Surface Go 2

#137

Post by linmob » Sat, Jun 25, 2022, 3:45 PM UTC

mark_l_watson wrote: post #102

Cool that they are happy with their setup. The author tried the Lenovo Duet Chromebook, which I also have. I agree that the resources on the Duet are light weight for running Linux containers, but I find it very useful nonetheless. To be honest, when I travel with the Duet, I usually SSH into a remote server, but, I do something’s locally. I would like something like the Duet for twice the price with more computation…

Agreed. The Lenovo Duet Chromebook is quite nice, and if one ever gets tired of Chrome OS (or once Google drops it, there's already a distribution [1] that supports it.

[1]: https://github.com/Maccraft123/Cadmium

Re: I Finally Found a Solid Debian Tablet: The Surface Go 2

#138

Post by cycatz » Sat, Jun 25, 2022, 3:46 PM UTC

How about XPS 13 2-in-1 or HP spectre 360 ? They can be flipped 180-degrees backwards and have pen support. I recently had a post on reddit asking for the recommendation for a linux 2-in-1 laptop: https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/vjc8ta/recom...

Re: I Finally Found a Solid Debian Tablet: The Surface Go 2

#139

Post by MediocreSysEgnr » Sat, Jun 25, 2022, 3:47 PM UTC

eropple wrote: post #131

jeroenhd wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can see with the Steam Deck. Valve is slowly releasing drivers over time but in early stages Windows was inefficient, sound didn't work or didn't work well, sleep wasn't snappy, the list goes on. It had all the problems your average Linux install will encounter without the enthusiast-written drivers to work around manufacturers' lack of support. That said, the Steam Deck seems to be the first non-enthusiast devic…

I'd say pretty confidently that Lenovo has done quite a bit of caring over the years. I've had a bunch of T-series ThinkPads that have been super good under Linux.

This might have more to do with the glut of off-lease corporate ThinkPads being available at very competitive pricing for FOSS developers to pick up rather than any indication of Lenovo's commitment to FOSS.

Re: I Finally Found a Solid Debian Tablet: The Surface Go 2

#140

Post by majkinetor » Sat, Jun 25, 2022, 3:48 PM UTC

sseagull wrote: post #33

least wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is better served by a laptop for the majority of people, though as someone that uses an unconventional keyboard anyway, a laptop is somewhat less compelling (since it occupies a lot of space with a keyboard that I actively avoid using), I can certainly see the appeal of a tablet for that purpose. I personally don't think Microsoft quite got it right with using Windows on a tablet, though it was certainly a lot b…

I bought a Surface 7+ a few months ago and really like it. I think of it as a “laptop replacement”. My serious work is done on a desktop with 3 large monitors at home, and a laptop with two large monitors at work. So I only needed a small-ish laptop to handle the in-between. Plus I can read books or watch videos, take notes, etc, in tablet mode. > building apps that fit the UX paradigms of Surface tablets I kinda don…

This is also my finding - I need regular apps even while reading books or watch videos. Windows 10 in non tablet mode is totally great for that. I use winget/chocolatey to install stuff I use on work and home and no need for different OS/apps. I can run anything work related on Surface - I have docker installed, Visual Studio, Sql Server, PostgreSql, nodejs, dotnet etc - I rarely use them but its good to know everything just works if I needed it. Most of the time I use it for reading HN and friends, watch some videos/podcasts, read ebooks. Besides that, I have it with me on each meeting. I save any work in git repository so having all that working the same as on my Desktop computer is a big win.

Regarding that use case, the only thing I don't like about Surface 7 Pro is its screen which is very much reflective. Other then that, its totally awesome.