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Goldman Raising $2B to Buy Distressed Celsius Assets

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Re: Goldman Raising $2B to Buy Distressed Celsius Assets

#121

Post by bruce511 »

Tsiklon wrote: post #32
googlryas wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Gets the shaft" implies harsh or unfair treatment. It was startup guy's idea to sell the company, and startup guy's lack of abilities which led them to the mess in the first place. It seems like startup guy is getting exactly what he deserved?

I think from a purely moralistic perspective this is unkind. Perhaps they are getting exactly what they signed up for. But how many naive purely technical people have been short changed by similar antics in the past

The conclusion to be drawn here is that naive pure-tech people are not well rounded enough to extract the maximum value from their creations for themselves.

In other words sole-founders have missing skills which are likely to be exploited by those who have those skills.

Perhaps this implies that a founding team with a mixed skill set (creation, sales, business) will likely have long-term better outcomes. Perhaps it implies that sole-founders would be well advised to pay for competent advisors in the areas they are weak.

Re: Goldman Raising $2B to Buy Distressed Celsius Assets

#122

Post by hackernudes »

moneywoes wrote: post #115
ceeplusplus wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one thing of value that crypto actually delivers (and which will never be replicated in tradfi because of incentives of existing players) is atomic multi-party transactions across unrelated parties. Something like a flash loan would never exist in tradfi. Being able to borrow billions with _no_ risk of loss due to execution delays between borrowing money and executing a trade means more liquidity and lower risk f…

I may be misinformed but haven’t those flash loans been heavily exploited?

Isn't it more like they have been used to exploit bad smart contracts?

Re: Goldman Raising $2B to Buy Distressed Celsius Assets

#123

Post by hackernudes »

ceeplusplus wrote: post #28
WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wall street is in on the crypto idea. They see a future. Soon (a few years?) we will see the crypto craze back on. Maybe not as crazy and better regulated but it will be there. The "Turn a $1000 into a $million craze" is probably no more. But crypto is here to stay. A few wall street firms have started to recommend Crypto as an investment. Goldman probably sees a future where their clients will have crypto assets so…

The one thing of value that crypto actually delivers (and which will never be replicated in tradfi because of incentives of existing players) is atomic multi-party transactions across unrelated parties. Something like a flash loan would never exist in tradfi. Being able to borrow billions with _no_ risk of loss due to execution delays between borrowing money and executing a trade means more liquidity and lower risk f…

A fixed monetary policy will also never happen in tradfi. Bitcoin as a currency delivers something.

Can atomic swaps happen in a centralized system? If so, does that still count as cryptocurrency?

Re: Goldman Raising $2B to Buy Distressed Celsius Assets

#124

Post by ceeplusplus »

hackernudes wrote: post #123
ceeplusplus wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one thing of value that crypto actually delivers (and which will never be replicated in tradfi because of incentives of existing players) is atomic multi-party transactions across unrelated parties. Something like a flash loan would never exist in tradfi. Being able to borrow billions with _no_ risk of loss due to execution delays between borrowing money and executing a trade means more liquidity and lower risk f…

A fixed monetary policy will also never happen in tradfi. Bitcoin as a currency delivers something. Can atomic swaps happen in a centralized system? If so, does that still count as cryptocurrency?

There are no technical barriers preventing atomic swaps from happening in a centralized system. Transactional databases have existed since the 70s. There are no technical barriers preventing bank transfers from clearing in seconds either, but as I said, there are incentive problems that prevent existing actors from making it happen. Cryptocurrency is merely a technical solution to a political problem. How do you bypass the existing entrenched players in finance so you can implement real changes? You make your own money. How do you get people to trust bullshit money? Crypto.

There are a huge number of stock exchanges today that all trade the same products with slightly different exchange features. Do you think they're going to be inclined to cooperate with each other to make atomic swaps work across exchanges?

Re: Goldman Raising $2B to Buy Distressed Celsius Assets

#125

Post by lolc »

dragontamer wrote: post #86
joshcryer wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are raising money for liquidation, they will pay back users a fraction of what they originally deposited, and then play with some rows on an excel spreadsheet and walk with millions. Celsius can't go back live because the bank run would destroy the entire thing just like with Terra.

Note that Terra/Luna was an algorithmic stablecoins, while the Celsius situation is kinda-sorta more like a proper bank run. Rumors of losses from exposure to 3 arrow capital causing a stampede of users forcing Celsius to shut down. There is a Celsius coin that kinda is like terra but really is quite different. They seem to have completely different mechanics, aside from failing within a month of each other there is…

Another similarity is that both are too complicated to explain.

Re: Goldman Raising $2B to Buy Distressed Celsius Assets

#126

Post by WheelsAtLarge »

bruce511 wrote: post #121
Tsiklon wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think from a purely moralistic perspective this is unkind. Perhaps they are getting exactly what they signed up for. But how many naive purely technical people have been short changed by similar antics in the past

The conclusion to be drawn here is that naive pure-tech people are not well rounded enough to extract the maximum value from their creations for themselves. In other words sole-founders have missing skills which are likely to be exploited by those who have those skills. Perhaps this implies that a founding team with a mixed skill set (creation, sales, business) will likely have long-term better outcomes. Perhaps it i…

Facebook's Zuckerberg had the right idea. He sucked in some of his ego and hired Sandberg to help him run the company. I'm sure Facebook has done so much better thanks to the two running the company. She brought in the business discipline and know-how to be able to maximize profits.

Whatever people might think of Zuckerberg, one thing for sure, he's smart enough to know that he doesn't know everything and should ask for help. Many founder's ego just won't let them do that.

Re: Goldman Raising $2B to Buy Distressed Celsius Assets

#127

Post by danuker »

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #3

It's taken me a while to understand this but a very common cycle for tech is: 1)Startup founder gets and idea and develops it. 2)The startup develops the tech and finds a market for it 3)The Startup becomes successful 4)The market falls apart and the founder can't guide the startup thru the difficulties 5)Start up is in distress or fails 6)An MBA type comes along buys everything at a deep discount 7)The new manager r…

Celsius in particular should make an MBA more worried.

Their required collateral when making a loan is 4x in cryptoassets. This means the collateral is not enough after a 75% drop.

Yet Bitcoin dropped 80% every 3-4 years or so.

https://studio.glassnode.com/metrics?a=BTC&m=market.PriceDra...

Re: Goldman Raising $2B to Buy Distressed Celsius Assets

#129

Post by redisman »

foepys wrote: post #99
oars wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who invest in cryptocurrency are doing just fine. They may have lost a large portion this money, but the fact they even have money to put into crypto means they are able to afford food, rent, etc. Losing money in cryptocurrency is a first-world problem, no one is going to commit violent acts over losing their side/play money.

Look into the /r/celsiusnetwork subreddit and see for yourself how many people mortgaged their houses and put their spouse's savings into it. A lot of people are not fine, they just didn't feel the full ramifications for their actions, yet.

Funny I remember warning people on various reddits many months ago that there is no risk free 10-20% investment and asking where is this yield originating from. Let’s just say people weren’t very receptive. Greed is a hell of a drug

Re: Goldman Raising $2B to Buy Distressed Celsius Assets

#130

Post by redisman »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #65
olalonde wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With FTX and now Goldman buying up assets from dying crypto companies, it looks like a bigger crypto crash will now start to hit the rest of the financial markets. Why?

Those companies have connections to the broader financial markets. The traditional thought was that crypto could do what it wants because it's a fairly insulated silo. If it fails, nothing of value fails with it. If it is going to contaminate the rest of the financial system, we are going to need to shut down the shenanigans very fast.

Why is FTX more connected to Wall Street than coinbase? Only one of them is public
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