Goldman Raising $2B to Buy Distressed Celsius Assets • Hacker News Board

Re: Goldman Raising $2B to Buy Distressed Celsius Assets

#101

Post by cdiddy2 » Sat, Jun 25, 2022, 4:34 AM UTC

pclmulqdq wrote: post #65

olalonde wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With FTX and now Goldman buying up assets from dying crypto companies, it looks like a bigger crypto crash will now start to hit the rest of the financial markets. Why?

Those companies have connections to the broader financial markets. The traditional thought was that crypto could do what it wants because it's a fairly insulated silo. If it fails, nothing of value fails with it. If it is going to contaminate the rest of the financial system, we are going to need to shut down the shenanigans very fast.

Stocks have wiped out 7 trillion in value this year. At its peak the entire crypto market was 2.5 trillion and is now 1 trillion. So stocks lost 3 entire crypto markets worth of value this year, seems hard to say that it has the power to contaminate the system just yet.

Re: Goldman Raising $2B to Buy Distressed Celsius Assets

#102

Post by adrr » Sat, Jun 25, 2022, 4:45 AM UTC

insaneirish wrote: post #80

kerblang wrote: post #31

Question: Who owns the deposited assets? Don't the original owners have dibs? Or can Goldman just pull the rug and say "ours now". That would seem crazy.

> Question: Who owns the deposited assets? Don't the original owners have dibs? If you give your money to something that looks like a bank, walks like a bank, but is not actually a bank, don't expect them to be held to the same legal standards as a bank.

Difference is the banks are insured. Banks can make bad investments with deposits and do go bankrupt. 2012 had lots of banks going bust when they invested in mortgage backed securities which is ironic because they were the ones originating these bad loans and they had to know they were garbage.

Re: Goldman Raising $2B to Buy Distressed Celsius Assets

#103

Post by mekster » Sat, Jun 25, 2022, 4:57 AM UTC

nathanvanfleet wrote: post #35

ghaff wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people trying to commit violent acts will go to prison etc. and, assuming they're at least vaguely rational, will realize that (and that it won't actually return their money).

That must be why violent acts never happen. Go figure.

That's why people in higher position can wield violence secretly while avoiding violence from average people.

Laws need to be bad enough violence may feel better.

Re: Goldman Raising $2B to Buy Distressed Celsius Assets

#104

Post by mekster » Sat, Jun 25, 2022, 5:18 AM UTC

pclmulqdq wrote: post #93

Nick87633 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are referring to a future, bigger crash outside of the current year?

Two possible scary scenarios: an extension of the current crash or the next crash in 2025-2026.

That's a really unbiased insightful prediction.

Re: Goldman Raising $2B to Buy Distressed Celsius Assets

#105

Post by mekster » Sat, Jun 25, 2022, 5:20 AM UTC

duxup wrote: post #43

Havoc wrote: post #16

Interesting move in light of current "crypto is dead" sentiment in many corners - hn included

I’m not sure this is good news…

It seems Goldman is just brokering some demand whether it is insightful or dumb.

Re: Goldman Raising $2B to Buy Distressed Celsius Assets

#106

Post by mekster » Sat, Jun 25, 2022, 5:21 AM UTC

henning wrote: post #41

Wouldn't be the first time Goldman made money off assets they knew were worthless dog shit that will eventually go to zero.

Isn't their business to make assets look too expensive or cheap and earn the fee while spreading FUD both ways?

Re: Goldman Raising $2B to Buy Distressed Celsius Assets

#107

Post by mekster » Sat, Jun 25, 2022, 5:25 AM UTC

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #18

SilasX wrote: post #9

Hah, we just had a comment in the other thread where someone suggested this would happen and someone else was skeptical. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31869856 But what's Goldman's play here? To pump crypto after buying?

Wall street is in on the crypto idea. They see a future. Soon (a few years?) we will see the crypto craze back on. Maybe not as crazy and better regulated but it will be there. The "Turn a $1000 into a $million craze" is probably no more. But crypto is here to stay. A few wall street firms have started to recommend Crypto as an investment. Goldman probably sees a future where their clients will have crypto assets so…

Can you refer to any source or citation on general Wallstreet being pro crypto?

Re: Goldman Raising $2B to Buy Distressed Celsius Assets

#108

Post by mekster » Sat, Jun 25, 2022, 5:28 AM UTC

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #58

ceeplusplus wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one thing of value that crypto actually delivers (and which will never be replicated in tradfi because of incentives of existing players) is atomic multi-party transactions across unrelated parties. Something like a flash loan would never exist in tradfi. Being able to borrow billions with _no_ risk of loss due to execution delays between borrowing money and executing a trade means more liquidity and lower risk f…

Here's an advantage that no one seems to point out. "Longevity," crypto, like bitcoin, does not need a nation state to survive. True, it's value will fluctuate, there is nothing stopping it from going to zero, but as long as there's group of people that want to mine it and use it, it will be here.

When will be the time no one wants an asset that's not centrally controlled?

People say crypto has no intrinsic value but its uncontrollable existence is the value itself.

But it's ok for those people to keep missing the boat to see bright friends make killings.

When will they try to answer the simple question that how crypto is still around after 13 years with constant price increase?

Re: Goldman Raising $2B to Buy Distressed Celsius Assets

#109

Post by mekster » Sat, Jun 25, 2022, 5:33 AM UTC

amluto wrote: post #77

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's an advantage that no one seems to point out. "Longevity," crypto, like bitcoin, does not need a nation state to survive. True, it's value will fluctuate, there is nothing stopping it from going to zero, but as long as there's group of people that want to mine it and use it, it will be here.

Bitcoin is quite susceptible to its own form of death spiral: the point at which attacking it becomes more profitable or simply more amusing than to mine it honestly. There is a large amount of mining hardware out there, and the lower the price goes, the less profitable it is to mine with that hardware. But idle hardware still exists. Imagine if you could rent mining hardware, IaaS-style, and there was enough availab…

How is attacking it more profitable?

You need gigantic investment to accomplish it now and it's not even a sure return and by the time you're constantly successful with your attack, the market has figured the network is taken over for the price to go zero to move over to another coin.

Then you're left with crazily invested factories, mining a worthless coin.

Your assumptions are missing the simple idea that if there's a room to be profitable, they'll mine that themselves than somehow let them stay idle for someone else to rent and start a massive attack.

Re: Goldman Raising $2B to Buy Distressed Celsius Assets

#110

Post by frakkingcylons » Sat, Jun 25, 2022, 5:40 AM UTC

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #3

It's taken me a while to understand this but a very common cycle for tech is: 1)Startup founder gets and idea and develops it. 2)The startup develops the tech and finds a market for it 3)The Startup becomes successful 4)The market falls apart and the founder can't guide the startup thru the difficulties 5)Start up is in distress or fails 6)An MBA type comes along buys everything at a deep discount 7)The new manager r…

You say this as if you're the first person to point it out online.