Live data from Hacker News

BrachioGraph – the cheapest, simplest possible pen-plotter

brachiograph.art

31–40 of 51 posts

Re: BrachioGraph – the cheapest, simplest possible pen-plotter

#31
post #29

Wait a second, how'd they upload a video to Vimeo? I thought Vimeo shut down. Edit: Well I guess I just made that up somehow. I swore I read something about people moving their content because Vimeo's over.

You we're probably thinking about recent leave due to pricing change.

Re: BrachioGraph – the cheapest, simplest possible pen-plotter

#32
post #23

WHen I built this I thought there was a fancy algorithm that I could use to improve the quality of the drawing.. but no, the SG90 servos are hopelessly crap.

Were they noisy, or did they quantize motion, or were they too weak, or what?

Hysteresis kills this project

Re: BrachioGraph – the cheapest, simplest possible pen-plotter

#33

I've wanted a pen plotter for so long, but mainly to draw sharp geometrical figures. I don't think this would scratch the itch but I'm hopeful something will appear for <$100

I would recommend an old Graphtec or Roland one. They are designed for this and work extremely well in good condition. The downsides are you may have to wait a while to find one on an auction site, and may have to work to either find proper pens or attach ordinary pens.

Re: BrachioGraph – the cheapest, simplest possible pen-plotter

#34
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were they noisy, or did they quantize motion, or were they too weak, or what?

Hysteresis kills this project

The problem was that their potentiometers had too much hysteresis? That seems like something you could compensate to a significant degree in software?

Re: BrachioGraph – the cheapest, simplest possible pen-plotter

#35
post #27
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why, what are the super fiddly parts? It's very generally true that, when you have money and a functioning economy, buying a product to do some well-understood task requires less effort than building something to do it yourself. Similarly, it's easier to look up the answer to a well-known math problem than to solve it yourself. The advantage of DIYing existing things is usually just that you build competency you can…

Love that analogy at the end, very well said

Thanks!

Re: BrachioGraph – the cheapest, simplest possible pen-plotter

#36
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why, what are the super fiddly parts? It's very generally true that, when you have money and a functioning economy, buying a product to do some well-understood task requires less effort than building something to do it yourself. Similarly, it's easier to look up the answer to a well-known math problem than to solve it yourself. The advantage of DIYing existing things is usually just that you build competency you can…

I haven't tried this, but I would expect that maintaining precise and steady down-force is especially tough. The axidraw does a lot to make that work well. Sloppy x/y motion (as you'd also expect here) can just be treated as a "lofi" aesthetic, but sloppy z can mean having whole sections fail to draw or your pen digging into the surface and producing unrecoverable tears and drags of the paper.

Wouldn’t any spring work for application of downforce? Not that I’m immediately clear on how to attach that to the brachiograph, but for purchasable machinery it seems it should be relatively easy to solve.

Re: BrachioGraph – the cheapest, simplest possible pen-plotter

#37

I've wanted a pen plotter for so long, but mainly to draw sharp geometrical figures. I don't think this would scratch the itch but I'm hopeful something will appear for <$100

I would recommend a Cricut machine. Far less maintenance and everyone in the family can use.

Yeah, screw Cricut and their policies. When they sued Sure Cuts-A-Lot into removing support for Cricut machines, I completely swore off their heretofore-interesting hardware.

Get any old Roland clone. You can often score an old USCutter on Craigslist for similar prices, the hardware is way more durable, and it's all simple parts you can replace without vendor lock-in. They speak HPGL and there's a million softwares to drive 'em, including Inkcut which sorta sucks but it's free.

Re: BrachioGraph – the cheapest, simplest possible pen-plotter

#38
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hysteresis kills this project

The problem was that their potentiometers had too much hysteresis? That seems like something you could compensate to a significant degree in software?

It's not really predictable; you'd need a camera watching it to continuously train and compensate and improve. Which would be neat, honestly.

With the lever-arms on these things, you're going to get into all sorts of details with things like the pitch-circle variation of the plastic gears, which may have been nearly-ideal when they were produced but will become uneven with wear.

I would go the other way and grab any broken 3d printer, rip off the hot-end and stick a pen in its place. It's slower by default but a thousand times more precise, and you can tune up the speed now that you're no longer whipping around a heavy extruder or waiting for plastic to flow.

Re: BrachioGraph – the cheapest, simplest possible pen-plotter

#39
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't tried this, but I would expect that maintaining precise and steady down-force is especially tough. The axidraw does a lot to make that work well. Sloppy x/y motion (as you'd also expect here) can just be treated as a "lofi" aesthetic, but sloppy z can mean having whole sections fail to draw or your pen digging into the surface and producing unrecoverable tears and drags of the paper.

Wouldn’t any spring work for application of downforce? Not that I’m immediately clear on how to attach that to the brachiograph, but for purchasable machinery it seems it should be relatively easy to solve.

The arm from the BrachioGraph shoulder to the elbow is a spring. I mean, not just in the sense that literally every solid object is a spring, but in the sense that it has a large compliance; the derivative of force with respect to equilibrium position is small. But if you want constant downforce, at least at low accelerations, the best thing is a weight, and almost all the downforce on the BrachioGraph end effector appears to be from the weight of the lifter motor.

Re: BrachioGraph – the cheapest, simplest possible pen-plotter

#40
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem was that their potentiometers had too much hysteresis? That seems like something you could compensate to a significant degree in software?

It's not really predictable; you'd need a camera watching it to continuously train and compensate and improve. Which would be neat, honestly. With the lever-arms on these things, you're going to get into all sorts of details with things like the pitch-circle variation of the plastic gears, which may have been nearly-ideal when they were produced but will become uneven with wear. I would go the other way and grab any…

Hysteresis is, in general, predictable, though sometimes compensating for it is impossible. Are you speaking from experience in measuring SG90 hysteresis and gear wear or are you theorizing?

(I'm theorizing, because I think theorizing is valuable, but I want to be careful to distinguish theoretical predictions from reports from experience.)

The broken 3-D printer idea is brilliant. Unfortunately, right now there's only one broken 3-D printer for sale near me on MercadoLibre, and it's an SLA printer, so it only has one degree of freedom of positioning. However, it won't be a thousand times more precise; typically RepRap FDM printers like the Prusa or Creality have positioning errors on the order of 0.1 mm, and a thousand times less precise than that would be an error of 100 mm. The BrachioGraph drawings seem to have an error of about 2 mm, only about 20 times worse than a bog-standard RepRap, and actually, 20 is less than 1000.

Post reply on HN