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Supreme Court Overturns Roe vs. Wade

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Re: Supreme Court Overturns Roe vs. Wade

#611

Post by gnicholas »

darth_avocado wrote: post #402
LudwigNagasena wrote: post #337

The Supreme Court neither banned abortion nor prohibited the legislature from protecting the right to abortion. It merely decided that it is not currently protected by constitution, which to me seems completely correct. If most people agree that it should be a constitutional right, no one stops the legislature from adding the required amendment. And if most people can't agree on that, well, adding that wouldn't be de…

63% of Americans support Roe v Wade and 80% support abortions in some cases. People agree on that. Adding it to the constitution hasn’t happened because politics.

In polling I've seen, roughly 2/3 are pro-Roe, but roughly 2/3 also misunderstand what it would mean to overturn Roe. They believe that abortion would be illegal everywhere, not that the legality would devolve to the states. So while it's true that 2/3 of Americans say they want Roe kept in place, it's also true that many of them don't know what that actually means.

Re: Supreme Court Overturns Roe vs. Wade

#612

Post by jandrese »

cryptonector wrote: post #595
jandrese wrote: post #476

What I find interesting is how for many many years people thought Roe would be safe because it was mostly useful as a political tool. A wedge to drive into voting blocks to make sure they stay Republican despite everything else they are doing. It was in nobody's interest to actually repeal it. What nobody expected was for decades of indoctrination to produce true believers that would actually be elected to the Suprem…

Arguably Roe distorted national politics. This ruling might now distort local politics. It's going to be interesting. We might well see a multi-decade swing to the Democrats!

I wouldn't count on a major Democratic victory out of this. The propaganda machine that has been feeding this issue for the past few decades is still alive and well, they will pivot to some other issue (CRT, Wokeism, Black Lives Burning Down Entire Cities, etc...) if they have to. Abortion was just something that polled really well with the base and so they went with it, but it's not the only game in town.

Re: Supreme Court Overturns Roe vs. Wade

#613

Post by lanstin »

mirceal wrote: post #386
LudwigNagasena wrote: post #337

The Supreme Court neither banned abortion nor prohibited the legislature from protecting the right to abortion. It merely decided that it is not currently protected by constitution, which to me seems completely correct. If most people agree that it should be a constitutional right, no one stops the legislature from adding the required amendment. And if most people can't agree on that, well, adding that wouldn't be de…

Cute take but I'm going to ask the question: why did something that was in place for 50 years needs to be revisited? Is it maybe needed for the nutjobs that do want to ban abortion to do their thing? Also, you need to ask yourself: is this about abortion? Or is it really about literally keeping the people poor, stupid and uneducated? Think about it: if you're not poor this is not an issue. If you have 5 kids instead…

The law in New York City was from 1905. The current court doesn’t seem to value stability so much as their own agenda for how things ought to be.

Personally I think the root cause is an alliance between people with hateful beliefs and people that want the government not to tax or regulate large companies and rich families. Fine, slut shame people because they had sex and got pregnant (no matter the circumstances) and let us keep sponsoring fake research that carbon burn is good. Be openly racist again and lower those taxes even at the cost of not educating the young.

Just my theory tho. Hard to know.

Re: Supreme Court Overturns Roe vs. Wade

#614

Post by standardUser »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #337

The Supreme Court neither banned abortion nor prohibited the legislature from protecting the right to abortion. It merely decided that it is not currently protected by constitution, which to me seems completely correct. If most people agree that it should be a constitutional right, no one stops the legislature from adding the required amendment. And if most people can't agree on that, well, adding that wouldn't be de…

Protecting the rights of marginalized groups is the only thing that makes democracy a workable system. What you are supporting is called mob rule.

Re: Supreme Court Overturns Roe vs. Wade

#615

Post by decebalus1 »

batmansmom1 wrote: post #529
Jason_Protell wrote: post #510

For those who say this is the logically correct decision, how exactly did you conclude that? - USA Constitution 14th Amendment Section 1 ...no State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal pro…

If you believe that life begins at conception you could say that abortion deprives that "unborn person" of their right to life, as long as carrying the fetus to term would not put the life of the mother at risk.

The government doesn't believe that life starts at conception. Otherwise you'd be able to get tax deductions for an unborn fetus. This has nothing to do with when life begins. This has everything to do with population control and with religious fundamentalism.

Re: Supreme Court Overturns Roe vs. Wade

#616

Post by giaour »

lesstyzing wrote: post #563
cmollis wrote: post #525

When I was a child in the Catholic Church (70s and 80s) there was NEVER any political discussion that entered into the service (“..render unto caesar what is caesar’s..” or ‘separation of church and state’. Or, more probable, perhaps it was felt that it simply was not the forum for present-day politics. I don’t know). Since lapsed, A few years ago I was encouraged by a priest, as he enjoyed his fourth old fashioned,…

Why is it a surprise that the Catholic Church is against abortion? This list of religions that are ok with abolition is short. It would be quite a big thing for a catholic to turn a blind eye to and not consider when voting.

> This list of religions that are ok with abolition is short.

You are incorrect, but this is also a specious argument. The list of religious that were anti-slavery was short at the outset of the 19th century and a mile long by the outset of the 20th. Church doctrine is not immune to influence by popular sentiment.

Re: Supreme Court Overturns Roe vs. Wade

#617

Post by rvz »

screye wrote: post #330

I'll be the begrudging devils advocate for a decision that is sure to have devastating consequences for poor women in red states. It is good for unelected bodies like the Supreme Court to allow such dividing issues be figured out democratically. The US house has bled power to the other 3 institutions and of them, the judiciary is the least democratic. Ofc, my support for this change assumes that this Supreme Court wi…

It looks like either we will have a January 6th like raid on the SCOTUS or a total collapse of the United States at this point and end up with a civil war with a second republic.

Hopefully that won't possibly happen. But we'll see in 2024.

Re: Supreme Court Overturns Roe vs. Wade

#618

Post by mola »

lesstyzing wrote: post #563
cmollis wrote: post #525

When I was a child in the Catholic Church (70s and 80s) there was NEVER any political discussion that entered into the service (“..render unto caesar what is caesar’s..” or ‘separation of church and state’. Or, more probable, perhaps it was felt that it simply was not the forum for present-day politics. I don’t know). Since lapsed, A few years ago I was encouraged by a priest, as he enjoyed his fourth old fashioned,…

Why is it a surprise that the Catholic Church is against abortion? This list of religions that are ok with abolition is short. It would be quite a big thing for a catholic to turn a blind eye to and not consider when voting.

This is not what OP said. He was surprise to hear a highly political sermon where earlier that was not the standard.

Re: Supreme Court Overturns Roe vs. Wade

#619

Post by kansface »

TameAntelope wrote: post #410
LudwigNagasena wrote: post #337

The Supreme Court neither banned abortion nor prohibited the legislature from protecting the right to abortion. It merely decided that it is not currently protected by constitution, which to me seems completely correct. If most people agree that it should be a constitutional right, no one stops the legislature from adding the required amendment. And if most people can't agree on that, well, adding that wouldn't be de…

The problem with this legal OCD is that in the meantime, people suffer. This isn't a codebase refactor, this is people's lives. Pulling this ruling before you have "what the people want" in place is like deleting a feature you plan on rebuilding later before you actually rebuild it. Nobody in their right mind thinks that's a good idea in any other context, so why would it make sense here?

> Nobody in their right mind thinks that's a good idea in any other context, so why would it make sense here?

We should give some deference to precedent, but the rule of law is paramount. Consider what the opposite of the rule of law really entails, or how hard won that victory was.

Re: Supreme Court Overturns Roe vs. Wade

#620

Post by missedthecue »

darth_avocado wrote: post #402
LudwigNagasena wrote: post #337

The Supreme Court neither banned abortion nor prohibited the legislature from protecting the right to abortion. It merely decided that it is not currently protected by constitution, which to me seems completely correct. If most people agree that it should be a constitutional right, no one stops the legislature from adding the required amendment. And if most people can't agree on that, well, adding that wouldn't be de…

63% of Americans support Roe v Wade and 80% support abortions in some cases. People agree on that. Adding it to the constitution hasn’t happened because politics.

If this polling is true, we'll see it in the November elections. If it the elections don't show this, either people really don't care, or the polls were wrong.
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