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Ask HN: Help me help my deaf teammate

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Re: Ask HN: Help me help my deaf teammate

#31

Post by kradeelav »

sdrothrock wrote: post #16

Have you spoken with him about what he'd like? I think everyone has different tastes (both personal and also in relation to the types of hearing loss they have) and one of my buttons in particular is when people go out of their way to do everything... except ask what I prefer. For example, if he prefers to do video chats (I myself do), he may appreciate hand raising/visual cues before speaking (to context switch), cl…

This, absolutely. Different people have different preferences, and a lot of folks can be surprised at the sheer variety of options out there. People also have different preferences about how many, hm, visible? accommodations they like; some like 'em, some don't (me).

Would set up a casual meeting with him to go over what he'd prefer, see what works best for the two of you and the company, and go from there. A big part of dignity is feeling like you have some choice in the matter, to echo OP.

Re: Ask HN: Help me help my deaf teammate

#32

Post by roberthahn »

daveloyall wrote: post #28
roberthahn wrote: post #24

A lot of folks here wants you to ask him what he wants. Be prepared to hear that he doesn’t know what would help. But he will appreciate that you’re giving him agency. One of the challenges I have with this question as someone who is mainstreamed, profoundly deaf (this means I don’t know sign language) is that deafness takes a number of forms, so there’s no real one size fits all solution. But far be it for me to poi…

Could you expound on the definition of profoundly deaf, please? I think the phrase is used differently here (US American midwest/south).

Yep!

The scale I have seen used includes the terms “mild, moderate, severe, profound”…

… ah. Here’s a chart that might help:

https://www.asha.org/public/hearing/degree-of-hearing-loss/

I’m not an audiologist so while this is a great question I don’t have these answers at my fingertips :)

At any rate, my “definition” was intended to clarify what mainstream meant in this context.

Re: Ask HN: Help me help my deaf teammate

#33

Post by eurasiantiger »

I will never understand why people choose to have business meetings in the first place. In every scenario that doesn’t include personal introductions, everyone would be better off collaborating digitally.

Perhaps we are still missing the tools to do that effectively.

Crucially, I don’t mean we need another face-to-face/mouth-to-ear communication tool, or yet another way to write the same documents together. We need a new paradigm for thinking collaboratively, and tools to support that.

There’s your free billion dollar idea for today.

Re: Ask HN: Help me help my deaf teammate

#34

Post by mauvehaus »

It may not be well-known in the hearing community, but for some people sign language (generally ASL in the USA) is their first language, and English is their second.

I obviously don't know what the case is here, but switching to text meetings or live captioning isn't necessarily a full solution for all deaf people.

Re: Ask HN: Help me help my deaf teammate

#35

Post by daveloyall »

roberthahn wrote: post #32
daveloyall wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you expound on the definition of profoundly deaf, please? I think the phrase is used differently here (US American midwest/south).

Yep! The scale I have seen used includes the terms “mild, moderate, severe, profound”… … ah. Here’s a chart that might help: https://www.asha.org/public/hearing/degree-of-hearing-loss/ I’m not an audiologist so while this is a great question I don’t have these answers at my fingertips :) At any rate, my “definition” was intended to clarify what mainstream meant in this context.

ah, "mainstreamed" means not using ASL as your primary language (or at all, sounds like?), got it.

I have seen folks make a related distinction: born deaf or lost hearing.

Then there are some categories which are defined by physiology: some folks can't receive any benefit from cochlear implants because the biological hardware isn't there to interface with.

This just blows my mind: There are folks who fall into the subset of a subset of a subset and thus are so different from me that it's hard to imagine what it is like to be them, and yet, through ASL for example, or games, or so many things, it becomes apparent that they are just like me--and again, not at all. Minds are neat.

Re: Ask HN: Help me help my deaf teammate

#36

Post by w10-1 »

Why does he need your help?

Why do you think he needs you to post on his behalf?

It's likely the main issue is not his problem but the team's: a lack of documentation for the system or of any reasoned basis for decision-making. And that won't change until the team gives up on deciding what to do based on who-knows-whom with a veneer of process, and instead has honest design discussions and decisions, on the record.

Re: Ask HN: Help me help my deaf teammate

#37

Post by pugworthy »

sdrothrock wrote: post #17
elil17 wrote: post #6

Is this a team mate at a US company? If so, note that Teams live captioning may not be enough to meet your non discrimination requirements. Your company may have a legal obligation to hire an ASL interpreter or human transcriber, including for in person meetings. My biggest recommendation is to use a phone call for audio because he can then use America’s free video relay service for ASL or captioned telephone service…

> Finally, something that people might not think about: If he misses something someone said and asks you what it was, never say "it's nothing" or "it wasn't important" or "it was just a joke" no matter how minor the comment was. Just repeat it no matter what. This is absolutely critical. It's hard enough to interrupt multiple times (especially when you need to ask about the same misheard thing multiple times) and bei…

100%. As someone who's HoH (Hard of Hearing) this is by far the worst thing. It can lead to frustration, depression, and also self isolation simply to not be exposed to it.

Being Deaf or HoH can be very isolating. Sometimes it's nice (think "built in noise cancellation!"), other times not (feel really left out). Do what you can to include your team mates.

Re: Ask HN: Help me help my deaf teammate

#38

Post by drewbug01 »

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned much here is this: make an active, ongoing effort to include them in your teams social life.

Most people just give up when trying to communicate with people that struggle with spoken English as a modality. That can be a profoundly isolating experience.

Re: Ask HN: Help me help my deaf teammate

#39

Post by daveloyall »

mauvehaus wrote: post #34

It may not be well-known in the hearing community, but for some people sign language (generally ASL in the USA) is their first language, and English is their second. I obviously don't know what the case is here, but switching to text meetings or live captioning isn't necessarily a full solution for all deaf people.

Yes, this.

If you have an "ASL-first" person on your team, it might be extremely useful to take a college course on ASL, if only to learn some fundamentals (sign space, facial expressions as grammatical constructs, etc), a description of deaf culture (like, it exists and varies from region to region), and the inevitable "hey class, let's debunk some myths about deaf people" talk.

(ASL is American Sign Language. Substitute your region's dominate sign language. I did hear that not every sign language is as linguistically rich as ASL?)

Re: Ask HN: Help me help my deaf teammate

#40

Post by archb »

GianFabien wrote: post #2

I am hard of hearing and lip read to assist with following conversations. I absolutely hate video conferencing tools. The sound is horrible and live captions are often incorrect. Very few people speak clearly enough for accurate captioning. I prefer to read and be shown rather than being told. I prefer email, and avoid voicemail. So if you are trying help your team mate, simply focus on alternatives to talking and li…

Hard of hearing as well. Personally, I have found Zoom's live captions to be decent to make sense of what's happening. There are some words that are misinterpreted, but the overall context is understood.

My only complaint is that these accessibility features should be available to everyone, not gated to free users. At the start of COVID in 2020, Zoom allowed free users to request captions as well and it took a few followups for my account to be enabled. Not sure if they are still offering it.

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